Through wall infinite baffle install
Around 7 years ago I did this install. Scan 1" d2604 and 8" 4535, 15" Dayton pa380 in the center. It was originally passive and crossed just over 2khz, but I went back and upgraded it a couple years ago while completing the last two surround channels.
Minidsp HD now, crossed at 1700hz. 75watts a driver classab. Sensitivity went from 88 to 92. Gotta love infinite baffles and dsp, didn't lose a thing.
The 380 is getting 200watts. Crossed at 60hz. He's a bachelor. I framed out the openings in the back, which go to an unused spare bedroom, and they have some nice paintings over them...Monet over the sub magnet lol.
I made the panel from Beech, and the sub has an additional piece of maple glued and screwed from the back, with a brushed stainless steel trim ring. I wanted to catch every stud with the panel and lock the wall together. Neighbor heard it and I had to put one in his wall too lol.
This system has scared the **** out of more people, including me. I love the dynamics and clarity of an open back infinite baffle. If the system is playing on random and there is a bit of time between songs, when the next one comes on it's quite a surprise...one guy was over having a drink and threw his fists up in front of his face, another jumped in the air and almost fell on the floor lmao
I love how a highly sensitive active system with 4 ohm drivers reacts to the electrical signal. Take a good live recording from a small venue, adjust the volume until the vocals seem at a "realistic" level if the person were in the room with you singing, and then the sensitivity and ability to move air becomes very noticeable and gives it that kind of lifelike character that can fool you to thinking it's real if you heard it from another room and did not know it was a speaker playing.
To go from very soft and jump so many decibels so quickly even when you've got it turned down makes a difference to my ear, especially if your time alignment is good and there is no stored energy to smear transients. Record a hand clap or whisper into a yell in the same room and play it back. Very revealing.
Around 7 years ago I did this install. Scan 1" d2604 and 8" 4535, 15" Dayton pa380 in the center. It was originally passive and crossed just over 2khz, but I went back and upgraded it a couple years ago while completing the last two surround channels.
Minidsp HD now, crossed at 1700hz. 75watts a driver classab. Sensitivity went from 88 to 92. Gotta love infinite baffles and dsp, didn't lose a thing.
The 380 is getting 200watts. Crossed at 60hz. He's a bachelor. I framed out the openings in the back, which go to an unused spare bedroom, and they have some nice paintings over them...Monet over the sub magnet lol.
I made the panel from Beech, and the sub has an additional piece of maple glued and screwed from the back, with a brushed stainless steel trim ring. I wanted to catch every stud with the panel and lock the wall together. Neighbor heard it and I had to put one in his wall too lol.
This system has scared the **** out of more people, including me. I love the dynamics and clarity of an open back infinite baffle. If the system is playing on random and there is a bit of time between songs, when the next one comes on it's quite a surprise...one guy was over having a drink and threw his fists up in front of his face, another jumped in the air and almost fell on the floor lmao
I love how a highly sensitive active system with 4 ohm drivers reacts to the electrical signal. Take a good live recording from a small venue, adjust the volume until the vocals seem at a "realistic" level if the person were in the room with you singing, and then the sensitivity and ability to move air becomes very noticeable and gives it that kind of lifelike character that can fool you to thinking it's real if you heard it from another room and did not know it was a speaker playing.
To go from very soft and jump so many decibels so quickly even when you've got it turned down makes a difference to my ear, especially if your time alignment is good and there is no stored energy to smear transients. Record a hand clap or whisper into a yell in the same room and play it back. Very revealing.
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I already finished my speakers (prototype state) a while ago. I settled with the SB-Acoustics Satori TW29DN-B soft dome tweeter. Because I then thought I prefered soft dome tweeters. And I was very pleased with them. Though when last week I since a while took a listen again to the Grimm LS1Be which proved that beryllium doesn't have to sound harsch. Plus that they can offer a much better high frequency extention and a lot of extra detail. So obviously I came to the conclusion I needed beryllium tweeters or else I would die.
So today I swapped the trusty Satori's for the BliesMa T34B-4. I'll spare you how freaking groundbraking it's measurments and specifications are since you've probably already seen enough of them.
Because of the far superior frequency extension to soft dome tweeters I expected a slightly more spacious soundstage. And I expected more detail because of all it's other characteristics like the impossibly low distortion and speed.
It couldn't be more true. WOW. BliesMAGICAL. Such space. Soundstage expanded slightly but the most impressive is the space you can hear in the music. Playing classical music I can hear the entire concert hall. And the detail, wow. I could already hear a lot of hidden details with the Satori but now they're some much more obvious and identifiable. And there never is even a trace of harschness or inpurity.
Simply phenomenal.
So today I swapped the trusty Satori's for the BliesMa T34B-4. I'll spare you how freaking groundbraking it's measurments and specifications are since you've probably already seen enough of them.
Because of the far superior frequency extension to soft dome tweeters I expected a slightly more spacious soundstage. And I expected more detail because of all it's other characteristics like the impossibly low distortion and speed.
It couldn't be more true. WOW. BliesMAGICAL. Such space. Soundstage expanded slightly but the most impressive is the space you can hear in the music. Playing classical music I can hear the entire concert hall. And the detail, wow. I could already hear a lot of hidden details with the Satori but now they're some much more obvious and identifiable. And there never is even a trace of harschness or inpurity.
Simply phenomenal.
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Interesting post regarding your new beryllyium tweeters. I recently got two to try with my older Scanspeak Revelator pair. I, like you used only non metal tweeters, although I have used many types. I have similar favourable feelings about metal domes now, at least some. Have you tried metal drivers in other frequencies, and if so, what do you think of them? I found the EJ Jordan JXR6HD 6 aluminum foil drivers promising, and liked them as extended range tweeters, but we're too small for near full range use.
Well I now like the beryllium dome because of it's performance and increase in detail over the soft dome but without being harsch. I've never used metal midranges though. Though I think I'll stick with paper cone midranges. I think they sound more natural/organic (yes I just used that word, deal with it). I've heared metal midranges implemented in other speakers. For example I've heared a couple of different models Vivid audio. Great speakers, but not at all my cup of tea. They have tons of resolution and are very sharp. But in my opinion the vocals aren't very natural. I find them to lack body and can be sort of honky at times.
There also aren't that many metal cone drivers on the market that are in the same league as the Satori MR16P. The only I can think of would be the SEAS Excel W18 or W16. But in measurments they perform much less than the Satori. I've also heared them implemented in the Grimm LS1Be, which, especially now that I have the beryllium tweeter, is a very similar system to mine. Though they had good body and warmth I'd still take the Satori. More natural. And I found the Grimms to be a little wooly, though this could probably be improved when implemented differently. I really just love the midrange performance of the Satori. The vocals are just SO good. Some of the staff of my local high end retailer actually prefer the vocals of my speakers over that of the €115k/pair Kroma Elektra's.
The only possible upgrade for midrange could be the Scan-Speak Ellipticor 18WE. Which according to some users is the most natural sounding midrange ever, which I would believe because it has the elliptical voice coil, avoiding resonances in the cone, enhancing it's pistonic behavior. And it's super advanced motor. Though, I'm super happy with the midrange performance of my speakers as it is. I would be curious to the Ellipticor, but I do not at all feel the urge to upgrade.
There also aren't that many metal cone drivers on the market that are in the same league as the Satori MR16P. The only I can think of would be the SEAS Excel W18 or W16. But in measurments they perform much less than the Satori. I've also heared them implemented in the Grimm LS1Be, which, especially now that I have the beryllium tweeter, is a very similar system to mine. Though they had good body and warmth I'd still take the Satori. More natural. And I found the Grimms to be a little wooly, though this could probably be improved when implemented differently. I really just love the midrange performance of the Satori. The vocals are just SO good. Some of the staff of my local high end retailer actually prefer the vocals of my speakers over that of the €115k/pair Kroma Elektra's.
The only possible upgrade for midrange could be the Scan-Speak Ellipticor 18WE. Which according to some users is the most natural sounding midrange ever, which I would believe because it has the elliptical voice coil, avoiding resonances in the cone, enhancing it's pistonic behavior. And it's super advanced motor. Though, I'm super happy with the midrange performance of my speakers as it is. I would be curious to the Ellipticor, but I do not at all feel the urge to upgrade.
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MS speakers - YouTube
I've uploaded some listening impressions on YouTube. Of course it's not like being there but you'll get an idea of the lifelike nuance and pressence.
I've uploaded some listening impressions on YouTube. Of course it's not like being there but you'll get an idea of the lifelike nuance and pressence.
Hi all
this is my system based on rPi3 (volumio) > Analog Precision DSP first generation ( https://analog-precision.com/ ) > hypex NC252MP for peerless XLS10 / hypex NC250MP for Satori 16P / NC100HF for Satori BE
The sound is great !!!
I have ordered Satori 16TX to try it instead of 16P and will try to replace output opamps inside DSP with Burson, but that is another topic 😉
And a couple pictures of building process 😉
this is my system based on rPi3 (volumio) > Analog Precision DSP first generation ( https://analog-precision.com/ ) > hypex NC252MP for peerless XLS10 / hypex NC250MP for Satori 16P / NC100HF for Satori BE
The sound is great !!!
I have ordered Satori 16TX to try it instead of 16P and will try to replace output opamps inside DSP with Burson, but that is another topic 😉
And a couple pictures of building process 😉
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what veneer did you use on the sides? it looks like a tropical hardwood burl? or maybe Carpathian elm burl? Aesthetically, they are outstanding. Nice Job!
Tell us about your crossover filters... how did you integrate the Satori TW29 Berylium with the MW16P?
Tell us about your crossover filters... how did you integrate the Satori TW29 Berylium with the MW16P?
It's Walnut Burl veneer, and it's a little pain in the $%$ to work with.
But the result is worth it 😉.
Crossover point (at the moment, still playing with it) is 100-120Hz LR4 between XLS10 and Satori 16P and 2400Hz LR2 between Satori 16P and BE. Simple crossover with nothing else.
Only have use linkwitz transform on XLS10.
It plays from 20Hz to 20kHz. I do have measurements from test cabinets but don't know is it smart to place them as thay were not made in perfect conditions 😀
But here thay are
They were made with passive (ARA BE) crossover.
Whell one was taken in the room (so it have reflections from everywhere ) but you can see how top end is flat, and the other is taken outside where I have bars in line with tweeter (that does mess up topend) but you can see how is low end 😀
I must say that test cabinets with hypex PSC2.400 with XLS10 and ARA BE crossover with 19P and BE did sound really nice too.
But I like full active more 😉.
Will post some measurements of this final version once I make them.
But the result is worth it 😉.
Crossover point (at the moment, still playing with it) is 100-120Hz LR4 between XLS10 and Satori 16P and 2400Hz LR2 between Satori 16P and BE. Simple crossover with nothing else.
Only have use linkwitz transform on XLS10.
It plays from 20Hz to 20kHz. I do have measurements from test cabinets but don't know is it smart to place them as thay were not made in perfect conditions 😀
But here thay are
They were made with passive (ARA BE) crossover.
Whell one was taken in the room (so it have reflections from everywhere ) but you can see how top end is flat, and the other is taken outside where I have bars in line with tweeter (that does mess up topend) but you can see how is low end 😀
I must say that test cabinets with hypex PSC2.400 with XLS10 and ARA BE crossover with 19P and BE did sound really nice too.
But I like full active more 😉.
Will post some measurements of this final version once I make them.
Attachments
Impressive responses, and the bass roll-off complies with M. Colloms' statement of -7 dB at 20Hz being right for room correction.
It does ''look'' good, but please keep in mind that measuring inside the room is a little tricky and you have to know to interpret what you measure.
And I have a little or no experience 😉
So I took loudspeakers outside to get more cleaner measurements.
Setup everything and once I get back into the room I did have to make final adjustments to the bass region.
I still haven't taken measurements of the loudspeakers on pictures, the final version, as I put everything to work like a day ago. But will take them in a couple days and will place them here.
And I have to notice that I'm not an expert in any way, I don't know how to design passive loudspeakers or so, I look at this hobby as assembling Lego's, listening and measuring till I'm happy with the results.
Right now I'm very happy with the sound, and we will see what measurements will show 😉
Yoke, I notice that you've used wooden pads between your clamps and speakers, when I do this I'm to nervous and worried that an errant drip of pva will find itself between the pad and speaker, so I usually use tin ( aluminium baking ) foil between the pads/flat surface as insurance against this. The standard of your work is exemplary and gives others something to aim ( hope ? ) for.
Thank you 😉
I always say, if I can do it, anyone can 😉
As you can see, I didn't use any special tools, or CNC for ''wood'' work so...😉
Aluminum plates have been done on CNC but that is that.
About gluing I never have that case. But maybe I did, but the drip was so small that one hit with the hammer would take that apart. And I always look if there is any glue leftovers before I press those parts together. So far so good 😉
Your response curves with the Ara passive crossover look real good, and knowing the dispersion of the MW16P and TW29 I am guessing the horizontal polar response is quite nice as well. Nicely done...
Hi Guys,
this is my current hi-fi system:
The speakers are an in-house development, which I also presented here:
Asathor - 15" + Horn
They are currently powered by a Marantz PM-66SE. The Hitachi SR-803 are not connectet.
The turntable is a mail order brand but was built by Micro Seiki in Japan. By the way, the record has nothing to do with my political stance.
There is also a Kenwood CD player and streaming via a small Asus netbook.
this is my current hi-fi system:
The speakers are an in-house development, which I also presented here:
Asathor - 15" + Horn
They are currently powered by a Marantz PM-66SE. The Hitachi SR-803 are not connectet.
The turntable is a mail order brand but was built by Micro Seiki in Japan. By the way, the record has nothing to do with my political stance.
There is also a Kenwood CD player and streaming via a small Asus netbook.
