@Pano - Tonal balance sounds fine - excellent - to me. However as an older fellow, I realize no super tweeter for me - I wouldnt hear it anyway, unless it effects the bass notes somehow (which I've read...) As I add wing structures to the back, bass improves and I can use a little less digital EQ.
I have a sub which I believe will be more than adequate to pick up the bottom where these cant touch. That's the easy way. I bought a pair of cheap 18" PA drivers and could cut the baffle for them, drive them with their own EQd amp - but considering that effort, I'll try the sub first.
I have a couple pairs of other FR drivers, a second pair of baffle stock (currently stored under the bed) so I can always try the 18s with those before cutting up the boards that now have the F15s mounted. I'd like to try for something a bit narrower in appearance; push on the U frame capability and still allow for loading the F15s onto those if I want. That project's out on the horizon; still need to finish these, measure them and see what the sub can do with these to improve the lows.
I have a sub which I believe will be more than adequate to pick up the bottom where these cant touch. That's the easy way. I bought a pair of cheap 18" PA drivers and could cut the baffle for them, drive them with their own EQd amp - but considering that effort, I'll try the sub first.
I have a couple pairs of other FR drivers, a second pair of baffle stock (currently stored under the bed) so I can always try the 18s with those before cutting up the boards that now have the F15s mounted. I'd like to try for something a bit narrower in appearance; push on the U frame capability and still allow for loading the F15s onto those if I want. That project's out on the horizon; still need to finish these, measure them and see what the sub can do with these to improve the lows.
we tried a sub with these and it worked very well
also a tweeter helped the top end. But as I've said the natural sound of this driver is so nice I could live with its limitations as is and not risk losing the magic.
also a tweeter helped the top end. But as I've said the natural sound of this driver is so nice I could live with its limitations as is and not risk losing the magic.
^ What he said! I like a good deep bass note but these sound so good I will use them as-is for now. I do plan to play with some T90A's on the top and possibly a W-15 OB sub down low but the midbass on the F-15 OB is unreal! Bass guitar is to die for! 😀
Here is my temporary baffles made from scraps in the basement. I am planning a Decware large baffle eventually.
Here is my temporary baffles made from scraps in the basement. I am planning a Decware large baffle eventually.
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Thanks for the info Joe. 
When you get settled in with these I'd be curious to see what EQ you are using. Craigtone, you too.
I loved my old Selenium 15" woofers on OB, they also had a Qts of 0.7 which sounded good with the right EQ to flatten things.
When you get settled in with these I'd be curious to see what EQ you are using. Craigtone, you too.I loved my old Selenium 15" woofers on OB, they also had a Qts of 0.7 which sounded good with the right EQ to flatten things.
Hi Joe,
Try adding some 'spare' board as side panels and play around with 'splaying' them out at 45* instead of right angles - you can use tape to temporarily hold the sides in place - I've done this with the "Betsy's" with surprisingly good results - although it's only an 8" driver, the 10" and 18" side panels are just a variation on the basic 36" full width baffle - not sure if it'll be any benefit but easy to try....
Try adding some 'spare' board as side panels and play around with 'splaying' them out at 45* instead of right angles - you can use tape to temporarily hold the sides in place - I've done this with the "Betsy's" with surprisingly good results - although it's only an 8" driver, the 10" and 18" side panels are just a variation on the basic 36" full width baffle - not sure if it'll be any benefit but easy to try....
I'm so excirted about mine coming next week. if I need tio augment the bottom freqs i'd probably go with gr research servo subs.
@tooppy - you asked for some more pictures, so here they are. The baffle is 30" X 42" and the boards I stuck on the back are 6" tall - just the size of 10 pieces of scrap baffle board material I happened to have available. I extended the wing-age a bit as can be seen in the 1st photo. The other photos show what it looks like from different angles and the last is the whole system.
I brought up the 12" Velodyne sub and placed it dead center. Using the headphone outputs of the Aune DAC to drive it gives me a easily accessible level control. I dropped the 31.5 and 60Hz levels to -6 db in Daphile's BruteFIR EQ and set the sub to ~80Hz, then leveled it up to where I can just hear it start to contribute. Now the system sounds more like a normal stereo in terms of bass extension. I assume with the bass reduced like that and taken up by the sub, the little Jolida 6BQ5 amp (and the DAC) arent stressed at all.
I'm already imagining a sub box that fits better in the spot and doubles as a video screen stand. We obviously never use the gas fireplace.
Speaking of bass guitar, Victor Wooten's does sound good on that Flecktones 3 flew over the cookoos nest. Very fun to listen to and the sub's added depth makes the deeper notes more believable. Obviously, still experimenting with where to put the crossover point to the sub. At the levels I'm listening at, it's not doing a whole lot of work. I'm not doing a whole lot of work either to integrate it into the system; pretty much plug 'n play.
Hope this help others considering this very nice sounding 15" FR driver!
I brought up the 12" Velodyne sub and placed it dead center. Using the headphone outputs of the Aune DAC to drive it gives me a easily accessible level control. I dropped the 31.5 and 60Hz levels to -6 db in Daphile's BruteFIR EQ and set the sub to ~80Hz, then leveled it up to where I can just hear it start to contribute. Now the system sounds more like a normal stereo in terms of bass extension. I assume with the bass reduced like that and taken up by the sub, the little Jolida 6BQ5 amp (and the DAC) arent stressed at all.
I'm already imagining a sub box that fits better in the spot and doubles as a video screen stand. We obviously never use the gas fireplace.
Speaking of bass guitar, Victor Wooten's does sound good on that Flecktones 3 flew over the cookoos nest. Very fun to listen to and the sub's added depth makes the deeper notes more believable. Obviously, still experimenting with where to put the crossover point to the sub. At the levels I'm listening at, it's not doing a whole lot of work. I'm not doing a whole lot of work either to integrate it into the system; pretty much plug 'n play.
Hope this help others considering this very nice sounding 15" FR driver!
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Thanks Joe for these pictures, it gives a real good idea of your work and the reasons driving it.
I 'll do the same any time soon when I am done with mine.
I 'll do the same any time soon when I am done with mine.
Let's say we're working with a driver offset on an OB and want to "linearize" the placement using wings to appear as if it's centered on the board - bass wise. In other words make the speaker to baffle edge appear equi-distant. Has this been all worked out already?
I'm imagining there's a wing profile that would do just that, but have no idea how to calculate the wing's "shadow" equivalent when mounted at right angles to the baffle.
For example, the wing part should extend deeper at the most shallow baffle edge spacing and (somehow) follow the continuous contour of the driver radius to baffle edge. Thanks for any thoughts on this.
I'm imagining there's a wing profile that would do just that, but have no idea how to calculate the wing's "shadow" equivalent when mounted at right angles to the baffle.
For example, the wing part should extend deeper at the most shallow baffle edge spacing and (somehow) follow the continuous contour of the driver radius to baffle edge. Thanks for any thoughts on this.
Here's some measurements I took of the Lii F15s this morning. I probably need a better microphone, I only have this EV 1710 from the 70's. (1st picture is the 1710 OEM spec sheet response) I used an M-Audio "JAMLAB" for the monaural A/D.
I happen to have an Ivie white/pink noise generator, so I used it for the signal source. I used a program called "Visual Analyser 2019". 2nd photo is the white noise signal at the right speaker terminal. I cant explain the fall off between 10 and 20 kHz... 3rd photo is the noise floor of mic in room with no signal. 4th is the frequency response at my sitting position.
I also tried pink noise with an octave band analysis, using a program called Friture. 5th photo shows those results at the seating position. (I did verify flat response with the pink noise as input, but apparently lost that screen capture...)
So that's this time. When I get better at this, I'll redo and repost. Thanks!
I happen to have an Ivie white/pink noise generator, so I used it for the signal source. I used a program called "Visual Analyser 2019". 2nd photo is the white noise signal at the right speaker terminal. I cant explain the fall off between 10 and 20 kHz... 3rd photo is the noise floor of mic in room with no signal. 4th is the frequency response at my sitting position.
I also tried pink noise with an octave band analysis, using a program called Friture. 5th photo shows those results at the seating position. (I did verify flat response with the pink noise as input, but apparently lost that screen capture...)
So that's this time. When I get better at this, I'll redo and repost. Thanks!
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Just chiming in here....
... MiniDSP between the preamp and the 2 power amps crossing things over.
I'm curious how you adjusted the gain on the MiniDSP so that it sounds good at a wide range of input levels from your pre-amp. I couldn't do it. If I set the input gain on the miniDSP so that it wouldn't clip at my highest desired listening level, it didn't sound good at low listening levels. Likewise, if I adjusted the MiniDSP input gain to sound great at low listening levels, it would clip badly when the pre-amp was turned up.
The MiniDSP now sits in a box in the basement.
lol that is not even a concern. my miniDSP SHD does room correction and also crossin thing over at 200hz and things are 100 at low volumes, and whether i have clipping or not is not related to the crossover.
Did you make these speakers? If so, did you use Butcher Block for the front Baffle? I want to copy the Decware Big Betsy (as inexpensively as possible) and thought of using "off the shelf" Butcher Block and cut it into the same shape.
Thoughts? Thanks & regards
Isn't the answer to feed the MiniDSP a fixed level signal and adjust the volume with the MiniDSP?
Google randomly gave me this in a search after I had read this thread, but that's it on amazon and only 6.5 inch.
6.5 inch Full Range Audio Speaker Tube mg-f6 Straw Paper Cone DIY Baffle: Amazon.com.au: Electronics
6.5 inch Full Range Audio Speaker Tube mg-f6 Straw Paper Cone DIY Baffle
6.5 inch Full Range Audio Speaker Tube mg-f6 Straw Paper Cone DIY Baffle: Amazon.com.au: Electronics
6.5 inch Full Range Audio Speaker Tube mg-f6 Straw Paper Cone DIY Baffle
The full range of Lii drive units is here;
Shop - Lii Audio, unique speaker, amplfier, quality and cost-saving parts for HiFi DIY
I've got a pair of the Fast-10S units.