Just wanted to say "thanks" for all the help and assistance I've received in these forums this past year - and happy holiday to everyone (cute attached pic...)
Here's a paper by MJK that speaks to the design of an OB - http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design_Part_1.pdf
I tried to match the paint on my 16" pizza screens and came pretty close; the pic shows what they look like. The inanimate objects have been less than cooperative lately... Velcro backing not wanting to stick, etc.
Running a sweep with my FG, there's a steep, steep notch at 80Hz right where I sit. Move my head ~1 meter forward and it's gone - I do think they're putting out usable bass to 60Hz.
I have some scrap material and am considering constructing a half moon of straight sections with 3, 60 deg angles to make a "wing" around the speaker attached on the back of the baffle at the shallow edge - perhaps that'll wring some more apparent LF out of the arrangement.
Reading the previous reply here makes me think 60 may be all I'll hope to get!
Here's a paper by MJK that speaks to the design of an OB - http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design_Part_1.pdf
I tried to match the paint on my 16" pizza screens and came pretty close; the pic shows what they look like. The inanimate objects have been less than cooperative lately... Velcro backing not wanting to stick, etc.
Running a sweep with my FG, there's a steep, steep notch at 80Hz right where I sit. Move my head ~1 meter forward and it's gone - I do think they're putting out usable bass to 60Hz.
I have some scrap material and am considering constructing a half moon of straight sections with 3, 60 deg angles to make a "wing" around the speaker attached on the back of the baffle at the shallow edge - perhaps that'll wring some more apparent LF out of the arrangement.
Reading the previous reply here makes me think 60 may be all I'll hope to get!
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audio circle have a section dedicated to open baffle with lots of experienced contributors.
@sweiss42 - "about the dimensions and that there may be a lot to loose". There is a lot to loose - the liquid deep bass all the way to 20 Hz is something you give up with such a design. Therefore the design must have some other appreciable qualities that you're willing to trade off great bass extension for.
"It seems to be that just grabbing a rectangular slab of wood and popping a hole "somewhere" is not the best approach -" I used "The Edge" to help determine speaker placement on the baffle.
"It seems to be that just grabbing a rectangular slab of wood and popping a hole "somewhere" is not the best approach -" I used "The Edge" to help determine speaker placement on the baffle.
I know am late but I just bought the Lii Audio AL-3's that am starting to work on a box for my mom. She plays piano and has been teaching for years. The few things I didn't like about them is. They arrived with bent corners on both speaker frames. Fixed it. One of the speakers has access glue that was not wiped off the driver. Other then that they play nice and high and will be for back round music. I will keep you guys up to date. My shop class at school is shut down in-till.after the new year. Up dates after the New year's. Cheers Jeff
Hi Jeff, I went to the Lii Audio website but didn't see the Al-3 driver. I did see a completed speaker that looked to me like a "snail"? that had a 3" driver. I bought a pair of Caintuck F15 on the basis from what I've read online etc. Just a little nervous as like most of us I would have preferred to have listened to them before I pulled the trigger and bought them. Should get them early January and am really excited about plugging them in and listening to them. I also saw the Decware speakers online with the same F15 driver but these were out of reach for me. I'll try and provide some feedback here once I get mine and give them some time to break in a bit. Thanks for responding! Regards - Steve
@jameshillj - That's a great (duh-oh!) idea! Simple to do experiment. Thanks for suggesting it here.
Who knows, maybe I'll like the arrangement and cut 'em down to size. The Caintuck small "barrels" work somehow (even though they appear to not be much more than an unbaffled driver which couldnt possibly get below 100 Hz) - perhaps the floor coupling is part of their trick. (For my first iteration, I wanted them ear level with us seated, because that's how I auditioned the drivers running completely unbaffled - which I liked the sound of)
Who knows, maybe I'll like the arrangement and cut 'em down to size. The Caintuck small "barrels" work somehow (even though they appear to not be much more than an unbaffled driver which couldnt possibly get below 100 Hz) - perhaps the floor coupling is part of their trick. (For my first iteration, I wanted them ear level with us seated, because that's how I auditioned the drivers running completely unbaffled - which I liked the sound of)
ive never heard of AL3 and as already said they sell a complete speaker with a 3" driver. If they were damaged and have glue on them, contact them, they are very good and would replace them unless of course they are no longer available. My crystal 10 came in wooden boxes and one had come apart on the corners, fortunately the drivers were ok. I believe they have improved the packaging since. How long have you had the drivers.
As mentioned I don't see the AL-3, do you have any picture and what price was it ?
I recieved my F-15 in a double cardboard box with no dammage.
As I said earlier, I just hooked them up and leave them on the floor for the time being, bass aren't missing, at least to my taste.
I am not familiar with OB, that's the reason I bought them. But what I noticed is :
- nearly everyone doing OB add a bass box but their drivers are well above the ground
- all kind of panel is used
- they are seldom with one full range driver only
- placement seems tricky and very often far away from walls
- most praise their OBs, find it magic but listen to something else on a daily basis
Taking all these into account, I know if I don't like it I could always place these F-15 into a Karlson baffle.
I also think after much readings, the Caintuck's barrel shape is far from being stupid and has to be the shape to try, the larger the panel the higher the driver could be placed, Decware being the example.
My goal being to use the F-15 only with no additional driver, no passive nor active additional filter, some two feet away from the walls.
I take avantage of the breaking period to listen and see if my project is reasonable, for the time being it seems to be.
Now I have to built the barrel panel.....on my kitchen table wich is not really WAF but WAT (wife angriness trigger).
I recieved my F-15 in a double cardboard box with no dammage.
As I said earlier, I just hooked them up and leave them on the floor for the time being, bass aren't missing, at least to my taste.
I am not familiar with OB, that's the reason I bought them. But what I noticed is :
- nearly everyone doing OB add a bass box but their drivers are well above the ground
- all kind of panel is used
- they are seldom with one full range driver only
- placement seems tricky and very often far away from walls
- most praise their OBs, find it magic but listen to something else on a daily basis
Taking all these into account, I know if I don't like it I could always place these F-15 into a Karlson baffle.
I also think after much readings, the Caintuck's barrel shape is far from being stupid and has to be the shape to try, the larger the panel the higher the driver could be placed, Decware being the example.
My goal being to use the F-15 only with no additional driver, no passive nor active additional filter, some two feet away from the walls.
I take avantage of the breaking period to listen and see if my project is reasonable, for the time being it seems to be.
Now I have to built the barrel panel.....on my kitchen table wich is not really WAF but WAT (wife angriness trigger).
I dont have any woodworking skills but i have access to all the tools in my university shop and the very knowledgeable shop technician who i am sure can guide me through anything.
my idea is to use those 3/4 inch MDF panels that home depot sells for ~15 bucks. they are 2 by 4 feet and then to use two 2 by 4 inch wood as feet.
I have these questions:
1 - should I have the panel straight i.e. 90 degrees from floor or should it be slanted? is 0.75 inch thich enough to support these drivers?
2 - the width of the panel is the next question. these MDF panels are 2 feet wide should I keep the whole 2 feet or should i make it smaller? the room that they will be used in is 25 by 30 and ~14 feet high ceiling?
3 - why do some people mount the drivers not in the middle of the panel? it is kind of ugly but i guess there is a good reason for it
4 - how high should the driver be mounted?
5 - any advice or things i shhould know?
my idea is to use those 3/4 inch MDF panels that home depot sells for ~15 bucks. they are 2 by 4 feet and then to use two 2 by 4 inch wood as feet.
I have these questions:
1 - should I have the panel straight i.e. 90 degrees from floor or should it be slanted? is 0.75 inch thich enough to support these drivers?
2 - the width of the panel is the next question. these MDF panels are 2 feet wide should I keep the whole 2 feet or should i make it smaller? the room that they will be used in is 25 by 30 and ~14 feet high ceiling?
3 - why do some people mount the drivers not in the middle of the panel? it is kind of ugly but i guess there is a good reason for it
4 - how high should the driver be mounted?
5 - any advice or things i shhould know?
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3/4" is thick enough, keep the full width, there is a reason why the drivers are mounted off centre but I don't know the exact reason but I've found mounted in the middle to be ok. But maybe stick with the experts and mount to one side.
I would slant them slightly back with supports behind not sticking out the front for a better look. It's so simple to do just get on with it and see what you think.
I would keep the panels the way they are unless you don't have the space or you want to give them the barrel shape.
I believe you'd get more bass if you lower them sligthly, in that case it can be interesting to slant them also otherwise they should be at ears level and slanting isn't nescessary.
@Dadbeh -
- They say putting a bass driver closer to the floor is preferable, as that allows for better "floor coupling" - where the room floor becomes part of the driver enclosure arrangement. However this trades off having a full range driver at or near ear level at a seated position.
With the F15, I've read the image can "float above" a lower, closer to the floor position, however I became spoiled by first listening to mine at ~ear level; now I'll give up the floor coupling to keep how they sound to me there. Everything's a compromise between competing attributes.
- Because the back wave from the speaker cancels the front, you should place the speaker such that the baffle distance front around to back is maximized. That would be centered. However, a symmetrical baffle placement effects smooth frequency response, so that's why you see the asymmetrical designs. Not maximizing the baffle distance front to back reduces bass extension. Again, everything's a compromise between competing attributes in choosing a design.
I read you can trick an asymmetrical placement into behaving more like a symmetrical one (bass-wise) by placing additional structures ("wings") at the back of the baffle to virtually extend the baffle width at the shorter driver to baffle distances. But, as in most such tricks, this only works so far before it introduces sound effects of its own. Another compromise. It's something I'm going to try with my arrangement, as I have the leftover materials.
I wonder how the small barrel shape baffle would sound with back side parenthetical wings around the driver; (O). You can tell my age when I try to construct visual representations using ASCII text!
If you can afford it ($15 vs $30), you could certainly double up on the MDF thickness wise, as it's well known the more stationary mass a driver has to "push against", the better the sound, particularly transient or what some call "fast" bass (different than FAST). Wing structures mounted to the back of the baffle will also increase the stationary mass and mechanical stiffness, which is a plus - unless you need to move them around a lot.
Feel free to discuss your F15 design choices here. Wings, will virtually widen your 2' baffle and therefore extend the bass somewhat. Pick a floor height, symmetrical or asymmetrical baffle placement - and then "wing it" into a OB design that sounds bigger bass-wise then it appears. Have a look at the so called "U" frames to see if you can incorporate some of that thinking into your design. Good luck and it'll be interesting to see what you come up with!
- They say putting a bass driver closer to the floor is preferable, as that allows for better "floor coupling" - where the room floor becomes part of the driver enclosure arrangement. However this trades off having a full range driver at or near ear level at a seated position.
With the F15, I've read the image can "float above" a lower, closer to the floor position, however I became spoiled by first listening to mine at ~ear level; now I'll give up the floor coupling to keep how they sound to me there. Everything's a compromise between competing attributes.
- Because the back wave from the speaker cancels the front, you should place the speaker such that the baffle distance front around to back is maximized. That would be centered. However, a symmetrical baffle placement effects smooth frequency response, so that's why you see the asymmetrical designs. Not maximizing the baffle distance front to back reduces bass extension. Again, everything's a compromise between competing attributes in choosing a design.
I read you can trick an asymmetrical placement into behaving more like a symmetrical one (bass-wise) by placing additional structures ("wings") at the back of the baffle to virtually extend the baffle width at the shorter driver to baffle distances. But, as in most such tricks, this only works so far before it introduces sound effects of its own. Another compromise. It's something I'm going to try with my arrangement, as I have the leftover materials.
I wonder how the small barrel shape baffle would sound with back side parenthetical wings around the driver; (O). You can tell my age when I try to construct visual representations using ASCII text!
If you can afford it ($15 vs $30), you could certainly double up on the MDF thickness wise, as it's well known the more stationary mass a driver has to "push against", the better the sound, particularly transient or what some call "fast" bass (different than FAST). Wing structures mounted to the back of the baffle will also increase the stationary mass and mechanical stiffness, which is a plus - unless you need to move them around a lot.
Feel free to discuss your F15 design choices here. Wings, will virtually widen your 2' baffle and therefore extend the bass somewhat. Pick a floor height, symmetrical or asymmetrical baffle placement - and then "wing it" into a OB design that sounds bigger bass-wise then it appears. Have a look at the so called "U" frames to see if you can incorporate some of that thinking into your design. Good luck and it'll be interesting to see what you come up with!
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In reply to your questions
Hi Dadbah - sorry, I can't answer your questions, it seems I am also just starting out on this journey. With regard to answering your question re; angled back or 90 degrees to the floor, it seems that most of the pictures of open baffle speakers that I have see are angled slightly to the back - how much? I have no idea. I did order a pair of Caintuck Audio Betsy Speakers with the Lii Auidio Fast 15 (F15) speakers and they look like they are angled a little to the back - you can go to their website and check out how they implemented their speakers. Also recently Decware.com licensed the shape of the baffle and made a giant version that must be amazing but are out of my price range. They look just like the Caintuck speakers but on steroids - they are huge in comparison but use the same speaker driver.
It was the Decware design that inspried me to want to take a try at making a large pair like this but cheaper. To use a hardwood like they did I thought of using some Butcher Block that I could get on the cheap - the next big challenge was to make the cuts needed to get the shape and to locate the driver. If you google search the "big betsy project" you can watch them build it they even give the dimensions as to where the driver should be located. I hope to get my Caintunck Audio Open Baffle speakers mid January and see how they sound. I've been hooked from reading the Decware website and am motivated to give this a try. Good luck! Regards
Hi Dadbah - sorry, I can't answer your questions, it seems I am also just starting out on this journey. With regard to answering your question re; angled back or 90 degrees to the floor, it seems that most of the pictures of open baffle speakers that I have see are angled slightly to the back - how much? I have no idea. I did order a pair of Caintuck Audio Betsy Speakers with the Lii Auidio Fast 15 (F15) speakers and they look like they are angled a little to the back - you can go to their website and check out how they implemented their speakers. Also recently Decware.com licensed the shape of the baffle and made a giant version that must be amazing but are out of my price range. They look just like the Caintuck speakers but on steroids - they are huge in comparison but use the same speaker driver.
It was the Decware design that inspried me to want to take a try at making a large pair like this but cheaper. To use a hardwood like they did I thought of using some Butcher Block that I could get on the cheap - the next big challenge was to make the cuts needed to get the shape and to locate the driver. If you google search the "big betsy project" you can watch them build it they even give the dimensions as to where the driver should be located. I hope to get my Caintunck Audio Open Baffle speakers mid January and see how they sound. I've been hooked from reading the Decware website and am motivated to give this a try. Good luck! Regards