As far as electrical characteristics are concerned that's all I could find, you know better, care to share?
You are right and at the same time, not right. Alas, the cables have an effect. It is impossible to build such powerful marketing on one snake oil. I simulated the influence of an audio cable (not wires) for my company. In speaker cables, the resistance of the conductors increases the distortion at the terminals of the speaker system, because the current consumed by the speaker system is non-linear.
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Using cat cables for speaker connection is not recommended. The "sibilance"you've noticed is likely due to interference caused by oscillation which is introduced by the capacitance of the closely bundled cat wiring. Amplifiers do not behave well with capacitance after their outputs. This has been documented on other websites and verified.
This is why when you increased the apparent size of the wiring by adding strand that the oscillation quelled, but likely not eliminated. You have to understand that cat wiring is close bundled for a reason - and used for a specific purpose, which is not audio. You're better off with that 16 gauge zip cord which has been the standard for speaker wiring for decades now.
Dave, right now you're acting as a confusion pump.
The OP will not have his questions answered as long as you continue to advance your own agenda over everyone. You've more than had your say and it is time to allow other members to speak without rebuttal from you. You have effectively taken over this thread from the OP.
-Chris
The OP will not have his questions answered as long as you continue to advance your own agenda over everyone. You've more than had your say and it is time to allow other members to speak without rebuttal from you. You have effectively taken over this thread from the OP.
-Chris
Anything goes in cable discussions. It's so pathetic, it's kinda funny how sad this is.
I even once read a guy saying his super duper cables needed a one-month break in, then sounded absolutely fantastic! Crap!
Hey, whatever rocks your boat, guys and gals. If you're happy with Walmart electric lamp cord wire, fine. If you like to spend dough to brag, then go ahead and make others richer. You'll be happy, they'll be happy.
If you need pliable wire, use multi strand. If you don't care, try solid core.
Make up your own mind.
Heck, maybe the next big thing in cables will be to paint some little dot patterns on the housing and claim it improves the sound.
Whatever. This is audio. There will always be someone to claim something that can't be quantified, but trust me... It helps.
And don't forget to sip a spoon of Dr. Ohms magical syrup... It cures ALL audio ailings.
I even once read a guy saying his super duper cables needed a one-month break in, then sounded absolutely fantastic! Crap!
Hey, whatever rocks your boat, guys and gals. If you're happy with Walmart electric lamp cord wire, fine. If you like to spend dough to brag, then go ahead and make others richer. You'll be happy, they'll be happy.
If you need pliable wire, use multi strand. If you don't care, try solid core.
Make up your own mind.
Heck, maybe the next big thing in cables will be to paint some little dot patterns on the housing and claim it improves the sound.
Whatever. This is audio. There will always be someone to claim something that can't be quantified, but trust me... It helps.
And don't forget to sip a spoon of Dr. Ohms magical syrup... It cures ALL audio ailings.
Hi Perceval,
You had better patent that now before someone comes out with that as a product!
-Chris
You had better patent that now before someone comes out with that as a product!
-Chris
I have a problem with the too low an output impedance. Your blaming the amp for the speakers problem, fix the speaker. I would think a low r pot so you can adjust it. A wire to add resistance seems awkward and a guess at the value of r.
A speaker, the amp, and the cable interconnecting them is a system. It is not possible to solely blame either when there is a mismatch. A lean sounding speaker could be perfectly fine, but the amp needs better matching.
A real-world example:
The big WAW MTMs i am currently using had bass that was kinda lose with my ACA mnobloks, too lean with the excellent big Modulus amp, and just about right with the SIT3. None of those amps is wrong, just that 2 of them are a mismatch (in my room, with the current speaker position).
BTW the speakers are outstanding. The ACAs were aquired thou to just drive the midTweeter in a bi-amped situation. A place where its higher output is moot in terms of bass damping.
It is worth noting that much of this discussion is only an issue at LF or with XOs that create an ugly impedance curve.
dave
Hi Dave,
I really have to agree with cbdb on this.
You don't try to fix a substandard speaker and sell that package for example. You point the customer to a speaker that doesn't have those short falls. Don't bend the system to accommodate a poorly designed speaker.
-Chris
I really have to agree with cbdb on this.
You don't try to fix a substandard speaker and sell that package for example. You point the customer to a speaker that doesn't have those short falls. Don't bend the system to accommodate a poorly designed speaker.
-Chris
Dave, the OP asked about cryo-treated wires, you've implied you know something about them, why not do him and others the courtesy of sharing?
Hi,
I made up a set of speaker cables awhile back, using 0.5mm multi strand auto looming wire in a 4way plait. Cost £1 per foot - including connectors. Nothing all that special about them, other than offering a certain degree of future proofing - if - I ever have to listen to music played back in a high RF environment. I have nothing to compare them to, or have the slightest idea if they outperform or underperform if ever compared to high-end cables marketed to audiophiles. Nor do I care, because I am cheap - but good with my hands, and take my time.
What I do care about is what I have achieved actually based upon effective electronic engineering practice? I have asked this question before today, and never felt entirely convinced by the loaded answers I got.
tapestryofsound
I made up a set of speaker cables awhile back, using 0.5mm multi strand auto looming wire in a 4way plait. Cost £1 per foot - including connectors. Nothing all that special about them, other than offering a certain degree of future proofing - if - I ever have to listen to music played back in a high RF environment. I have nothing to compare them to, or have the slightest idea if they outperform or underperform if ever compared to high-end cables marketed to audiophiles. Nor do I care, because I am cheap - but good with my hands, and take my time.
What I do care about is what I have achieved actually based upon effective electronic engineering practice? I have asked this question before today, and never felt entirely convinced by the loaded answers I got.
tapestryofsound
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Mea culpa, Matt - I meant the general subject of wire / cabling - already been discussed ad nauseam. Been there, done that - worn out several t-shirts with very trendy graphics.
???
Since we are talking about a system are you sure which part could be changed to make the system better? If the system works well together then the parts are in synergy, but if they are not, you can tweak the speaker or the amp (or the cable). If you end up with synergy then it matters not which one you adjusted. It is not that one was wrong, just that it was wrong for that application.
I suggest that the speaker is wrong is an assumption based largely on “all amps the same”. And well we can’t say “all", we can say “most" (but not all) because it is true that the current hifi world is largely closested in a low output impedance, who cares about impedance world.
th an dwant the mto match better.
And if you already have the speaker you like you want an amp that best works with it. Or you have both and want to improve the synergy.
dave
Had read this stuff prior to buying a 10' pair of Kimber Kable 8TC speaker wire I'd have purchased the 4TC ... and to think at the time I was second-guessing whether I should've sprung for the 12TC (simple x-over easy load 2-ways and single full-range drivers driven by low power tube amps), live and learn!
*Now I'd really appreciate if you guys could please put this thread to rest, give Chris, Dave and Scott a break so they can finish up with the JANE horn design!
Thx.
*Now I'd really appreciate if you guys could please put this thread to rest, give Chris, Dave and Scott a break so they can finish up with the JANE horn design!
Thx.
For 12 feet of twisted CAT 5 (ie a 6’ cable) the Cirrus capacitance estimator suggests something like 3nF. That is a lot smaller than typically XO caps, is it enuff to cause oscillation? The amp execution would also play a significant role in its behaviour.
dave
We compared cryogenic-treated wire to not and there was an improvemnet in the amount of information presented… the small details that give flesh to instruments and voices and play a big role in how well a system can produce a solid 3D image/soundstage.
dave
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