Good active design makes anps even less important than in a passive. Go and look at the Z curves of many multi way passives as measured by Sphile etc, especially in the critical high current band under 500Hz or so. My drivers in this area have a low Q peak at Fb, then are Re with 0.3mH Le until the steep 400Hz xover. Such an easy load, cheap amps work wonderfully. But then they don't have the names or price tags to impress others.If I could be assured of low noise, low distortion and a lotto win to fund the quality of amps I require, I may just abandon passive.
i think i like passives best, less complicated then actives and more reliable, less costly and better sound quality
Oh, wow.
I really don't know about that, I'd say for many smaller speaker setups with lower sensitivity rating you can get away with a cheaper slightly noisier DSP solution. And using that cheap DSP you can make something that will, in the majority of cases, vastly outperform any passive solution for the same money. Strictly because DSP can do so much more than mere filters, and you can get something like the ADAU1701 for less than the cost of some passive 1st order components, pending on what the desired xo frequency will be.
You're saying passive filters are less complicated? I honestly do not believe you've ever designed and measured a well implemented second order filter, it takes a lot of work to get it just right, even with good drivers and boxes. And passive filters are not cheap, they frequently require bigger value components that cost more money than what it costs to get a finished DSP circuit board with all components needed.
That said, some of the very best speakers I've heard utilized passive xo's, but they are not cheap! And they are not that easy to get right!
You guys using active crossovers, do yo construct your own actives and optimize transfer functions to your actual drivers or do you use pre-made products like dbx? Or do you use dsp’s?
I think it is safe to say that not many of us use analog active filters any more.
Some purchase ready made DSP boards to make integrated solutions (pre, DSP and Power stages in one box), some purchase ready made solutions like the offerings from DBX, Minidsp, Behringer etc.
And some very few cook up their own boards in the kitchen oven.
Passive filters are great, but they are not cheap, and they are not easy to get 100% just so.
A DSP solution is much more flexible and forgiving, if you make a mistake you do not have to order and wait for new components etc.
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Yes, sort of, and no. In the process.You guys using active crossovers, do yo construct your own actives and optimize transfer functions to your actual drivers or do you use pre-made products like dbx? Or do you use dsp’s?
When you do a side-by-side comparison of active vs passive, you may hear the difference. Many of the long term DIYers have active setups.
Great. I don't.i think i like passives best,
Not really. Some passive xovers use lots of components;less complicated then actives
Hardly. I've run PAs for years with inexpensive xovers, carted in and out of venues night after night, rattled around in trucks and trailers etc, and never had a failure. At home, never had a failure.and more reliable,
Not always, especially with complicated passive designs especially with overpriced booootique parts. I knew someone recently that wanted to do the recent Troels HE design, until he priced the passive xover. I can do it with DSP and second hand amps for much less.less costly
My experience disagrees completely. Plus I can do a lot of stuff with a DSP, you could never do passively. Kii Three for example.and better sound quality
Yes, mostly. I used custom analogs for years before going DSP.You guys using active crossovers, do yo construct your own actives and optimize transfer functions to your actual drivers
Depends. I did for my PA, and I used I/O modified DCXs for many years, These may get used in the new surrounds as they're good enough for that application. However, I don't try to wring all the BW possible out of each driver as I think it generally sounds worse. In the surrounds the MB can play about 2 octaves above xover and the MR about the same below. Using LR8 out of band rubbish is not as much of an issue.or do you use pre-made products like dbx?
Yes, completely now. I have MDs, DCXs a DEQX and a custom PC built to do noting other than be a DSP xover.Or do you use dsp’s?
And basically a +1 to Kaffi's post 23.
Caution, rambling ahead:
The responses to the OP have covered everything pretty well so far, just as in any other thread on the topic.
When building a box type speaker with a single baffle I would go active if only for the sake of time aligning the drivers. With horns physical alignment isn't a big deal, but unfortunately 'everything else' is.
Earlier this year I built a subwoofer (4 slot loaded 15" drivers, placed in room corner) powered by a Crown amp with built in DSP. Considering the corrections needed to make it integrate acceptably doing it passive would have moved me to discard the project.
The responses to the OP have covered everything pretty well so far, just as in any other thread on the topic.
When building a box type speaker with a single baffle I would go active if only for the sake of time aligning the drivers. With horns physical alignment isn't a big deal, but unfortunately 'everything else' is.
Earlier this year I built a subwoofer (4 slot loaded 15" drivers, placed in room corner) powered by a Crown amp with built in DSP. Considering the corrections needed to make it integrate acceptably doing it passive would have moved me to discard the project.
Besides this, a first order is cheaper and easier.
I'd be interested to hear any input you folks have.
JT
Putting things in perspective, first order filters are best suited to individuals hoping to design a loudspeaker by listening method only. The outcome can be rewarding in the sense of personal satisfaction. The SQ may be whatever between bad and not so bad.
Oh boy, yet another thread on passive vs active crossovers.
Yes passive crossovers are doomed, just like valves (tubes) vinyl and who knows what else. In 50 years I'm sure the debate will still be going
Tony.
Putting things in perspective, first order filters are best suited to individuals hoping to design a loudspeaker by listening method only. The outcome can be rewarding in the sense of personal satisfaction. The SQ may be whatever between bad and not so bad.
I disagree with that
If properly implemented (compatable driver pairing) the results can be quite impressive in a two way.
This of course puts serious limitations on driver choice but it’s not impossible.
I disagree with that
If properly implemented (compatable driver pairing) the results can be quite impressive in a two way.
This of course puts serious limitations on driver choice but it’s not impossible.
Well I disagree with your disagreement...
+1 for Lojzek in my book.
Another +1 for Lojzek.
I have a 1st order xo on a 2way speaker with good drivers. Seriously doubt it measures well, but "fun" was the main goal, not accuracy.
I wasn’t talking about measuring well.
Well measured doesn’t listen well in my experience.
SQ was what was in question.
Bob
Well, that makes perfect sense. In my last large FLH build, there was a 5' path length difference between the MB horn and the HF horn. No need for time alignment at all there, right?When building a box type speaker with a single baffle I would go active if only for the sake of time aligning the drivers. With horns physical alignment isn't a big deal
Well, that makes perfect sense. In my last large FLH build, there was a 5' path length difference between the MB horn and the HF horn. No need for time alignment at all there, right?
Is your unicorn stuck in sunshine mode again?
That you were saying that the much, much smaller delay between the acoustic centres of cone drivers on a baffle was important, but that the much longer delays in large horn systems wasn't. My experience, let alone the physics, says that's rubbish.What are you trying to say? 5' is 8 ms delay.
I said it DID matter.What was your crossover frequency that it didn't matter?
Of course not. The point was that it's important to get the drivers time aligned and this was the largest path length, and obviously time delay between elements in the system.You went from midbass to hf leaving out mids???
Yes, he's resting in the paddock today in the sun. He's tired from the ride to and from the Audiophile, Cryptozoology, Homeopathy, Astral Traveller and Astrology Society meeting last night.Is your unicorn stuck in sunshine mode again?
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