I agree that one doesn't have to have "best" measuring drivers (usually $$$), but certainly within reason. Having said that, it is the system integration and its' outcome that matters - passive, active, hybrid, IIr, FIR ... whatever it takes and whatever the designer is comfortable with.
It is like good cooking: me, I could burn black the best beef; a good chef will make a delicious plate out of a chicken leg ..
It is like good cooking: me, I could burn black the best beef; a good chef will make a delicious plate out of a chicken leg ..
It was not about the drivers but about finished loudspeakers. Everyone can make good driver sounding bad.
Interesting thing to be sure of.
Maybe they should check their hearing. I'm serious. I do it once every 2-3 years - company policy mandates medical exam every now and then.
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I agree on the Grimm audio, it's just wrong somewhere - would love to measure what they messed up.
Kii III playes fine - just not when they push it - the small driveres simply pump like crazy and cant move the air - which sound bad compared to a set of bigger drivers - also their add-on bass-towers.
Meniscus - never heard of them, but all I see is two basic SB drivers, that should sound fine, but again the design to begin with, is essential, not necessarily the filter. Then theres the measurments - cant find them. I need to see a full set of both on-axis and off-axis measurements of both drivers, full range - also with filters, to determine and give a guess of what is going on. If you just see a flat curve, says very little. I need to see which drivers that do what - and where.
There is potential in active systems - but you need to know how to take advantage of them - or else it will sound just different og maybe even worse..... same goes for passive in many ways.
And a transfer function, does not tell everything, since it's only "one". You need a set of them... namely off-axis too.
Also, what DSP was used, which amplifiers, the gain structure, the difference in sensitivity, cause the passive one has around 85 dB - then you make an active and can connect an amplifier directly to the drivers and get much more punch and control.
So many things to take into consideration. Try to do the same with 3 or 4 way speakers - then you will have a totally different beast, when comparing active and passive.
I agree on one thing though. Clearly I would like a good passive speaker, instead of a bad active one
Clearly I would like a good passive speaker, instead of a bad active one
The converse must then also be true. A good active speaker must be better than a bad passive.
Lots of us.
Post up the .FRD and .ZMA files, let us know which amp you're using, and someone will get back to you.
I do offer a design consultancy, but it'll be more expensive than what you'll get by asking nicely on the forum.
Chris
Indeed - it should. I just try to point out, that a given technology, is not better than the one that uses it. Just look at all the exotic car crash compilations on youtube. Technology is just that - and no match for human interaction, when we go fully creative
Fair enough. I've heard a ton of speakers and helped to build and adjust lots of them too. Sound quality is not exactly equal for everyone and some prefer a bit more here, and a little less there. But again - I cant stress enough, how important it is to measure and show honestly, what you measure, with as good a level of detail as possible. Know when to use gating, smoothing and average.
Some of the best speakers I heard on the Munich show this year, was speakers that simply obeyed the rules of physics and mostly had an active bass-driver sytem.
I like active systems like the one I have, cause I can hear that my DSP is designed properly and without the typical digital flaws, that many sadly still have. I use Groundsound, which cost a little more, but it just works flawlessly for years.
It's simply my ability to design a speaker, and adjust the filter, that makes the difference - not the electronics itself.
Is it really quite common? Ultrasonic?? PP amps reaching F3 at 100kHz are availbale but already that is special, unless I am totally missing at least a few things.
I like to use DSP to do filters and gently reduce a few unwanted resonances, also like to have boxes with little to no coloration of any kind. Then when the response is nice and smooth-ish, you apply gentle sloping correction to the frequency response, to get a balanced-to-taste representation of the bass, mid and treble.
Get everything right, and the only things that occassionaly rattle and resonate, are objects in the room that are not bolted firmly.
You get a lot more detail from each and every recording, small unintended things like hearing the fingers slide very carefully over the strings on a guitar, the noise floor of the old tube amp used in the studio, and many other little noises that are not really intended to be perceived, but carry a message of how the recording was done and the atmostphere in the studio.
I want to hear those sounds, I want to be taken to the studio and experience the music like it was a mini concert just for me alone.
I do not want to hear resonances and other faults in my own system, I want the tiny details in the recording.
I share your passion for accurate loudspeakers and accurate sound - but we are minority still. I don't mind that since i really don't care what other people want to listen, but it is a fact. If people would do more critical listening, many loudspeakers available as a DIY and commercial products just wouldn't cut it.
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I like neutral and i enjoy listening very much. I like to hear everything that a loudspeaker can physically deliver if it is on the recording. It's not the least bit tiring for me. What you call flavor, i call distortion.
Poor recordings are just that. You can distort accurate loudspeaker to work with poor recording and that is a valid way for improving the sound - but the source of problem there isn't the accurate and neutral loudspeaker but bad recording and/or party idiot mode. Condemning accurate loudspeakers of being sterile and boring because of bad recordings ? Not the way to go forward in my opinion.
Poor recordings are just that. You can distort accurate loudspeaker to work with poor recording and that is a valid way for improving the sound - but the source of problem there isn't the accurate and neutral loudspeaker but bad recording and/or party idiot mode. Condemning accurate loudspeakers of being sterile and boring because of bad recordings ? Not the way to go forward in my opinion.
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