Every little bit counts in terms of timing, I tried adjusting timing on a system once, I was off by 12mm, fixed it with delay, everything just seemed to "snap" into focus. But then again this might have been placebo, which I find unlikely myself, but you never know.
And then there are some that live happily with speakers without compensating for a huge delay.
YMMV but 20mm is still too much if you want to take it to the level some of us expect.
Mbrennwa, Narrow down the Dome choices for us, please, I've lost track.
Edit:
Please be careful US citizens! Don't choke on the turkey! Although some of you seem to be able to inhale that stuff.
And then there are some that live happily with speakers without compensating for a huge delay.
YMMV but 20mm is still too much if you want to take it to the level some of us expect.
Mbrennwa, Narrow down the Dome choices for us, please, I've lost track.
Edit:
Please be careful US citizens! Don't choke on the turkey! Although some of you seem to be able to inhale that stuff.
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I have my doubts also if the Satori TW29RN-B-8 with its concave front can be mounted on the Visaton waveguide.
Remark that the Monacor WG300 is 32 mm deep. Tweeters with the dome top flush with its front plate, have a AC a little backwards to its front, about 5 to 10 mm.
Why not choosing same path as the Monkey Box if you want to go for dome + WG ?
I forgot to tell, Faital Pro STH100 horn mentioned by Tmuikku, is also a nice horn, good responses, in case of CD driver.
Remark that the Monacor WG300 is 32 mm deep. Tweeters with the dome top flush with its front plate, have a AC a little backwards to its front, about 5 to 10 mm.
Why not choosing same path as the Monkey Box if you want to go for dome + WG ?
I forgot to tell, Faital Pro STH100 horn mentioned by Tmuikku, is also a nice horn, good responses, in case of CD driver.
I looked again to these measurements of the Vifa-xt25tg in a Monacor WG300, because this waveguide is 1cm deeper than the Visaton WG148.
Test Peerless / Tymphany XT25TG-30/04 (XT-300/K4) am Waveguide WG-300 / PCT-300 – Heissmann Acoustics
This is an interesting driver. With waveguide it has 99 dB around 2 kHz and almost 92 dB at 20 kHz. So equalizing it to 90 dB, the tweeter impedance will become minimum 8 Ohm below 5 kHz and not lower than 6 Ohm up to 20 kHz.
If possible looking to drivers that fit on the Monacor waveguide.
Test Peerless / Tymphany XT25TG-30/04 (XT-300/K4) am Waveguide WG-300 / PCT-300 – Heissmann Acoustics
This is an interesting driver. With waveguide it has 99 dB around 2 kHz and almost 92 dB at 20 kHz. So equalizing it to 90 dB, the tweeter impedance will become minimum 8 Ohm below 5 kHz and not lower than 6 Ohm up to 20 kHz.
If possible looking to drivers that fit on the Monacor waveguide.
I m not sure what combination of dome+wg has been chosen for monkey box, WG300 may need some modification to fit other tweeters than monacor dt-300:
7100-waveguide
and the jantzen waveguide is obsolete I think I could not find any retailers, it also has the same 20mm depth as WG148.
with WG300 we are still about 10mm off, the AC for TD8M is about 40-45mm.
Unless we do something with the baffle I do not think we can align the ACs.
I like a TP crossover but I have no idea how to compensate the delay in a passive XO if the ACs don't align, IMO a time aligned XO sounds more crisp, you can tell the difference in like guitar strokes and the bass is tighter, I have a Harsch XO time aligned setup in my current system using DSP.
I do like to have a time aligned system in this project but if that cannot be easily achieved (build simplicity in mind) I guess we have to make a compromise.
and if I may, I suggest to use the same MID and HF in the Faital version, the price is right for TD8M and AE usually has the TD8M stocked.
Paul what do you think of the review in partsexpress for Faital Pro STH100 I posted in #596 ?
7100-waveguide
and the jantzen waveguide is obsolete I think I could not find any retailers, it also has the same 20mm depth as WG148.
with WG300 we are still about 10mm off, the AC for TD8M is about 40-45mm.
Unless we do something with the baffle I do not think we can align the ACs.
I like a TP crossover but I have no idea how to compensate the delay in a passive XO if the ACs don't align, IMO a time aligned XO sounds more crisp, you can tell the difference in like guitar strokes and the bass is tighter, I have a Harsch XO time aligned setup in my current system using DSP.
I do like to have a time aligned system in this project but if that cannot be easily achieved (build simplicity in mind) I guess we have to make a compromise.
and if I may, I suggest to use the same MID and HF in the Faital version, the price is right for TD8M and AE usually has the TD8M stocked.
Paul what do you think of the review in partsexpress for Faital Pro STH100 I posted in #596 ?
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if 40mm center distance isn't good as time alignment, so this cab can't be eared off-axis, because vertical off-axis will also impact time aligment, so this cab can only be good eared seatted at only one specific place? if you leasten it stand still it will be bad?
I'm just pushing discussion from thechnical point to a more realistic one.
The diference from seat to stand still can be 1000mm
I'm just pushing discussion from thechnical point to a more realistic one.
The diference from seat to stand still can be 1000mm
The WG148 and WG300 throat diameter is a bit too small for many Scans. I just machined the throat to make it fit on my Scan 6600. It is often easier to remove the original faceplate and use an adapter plate to fit the waveguide to the tweeter. See here for an example. I don't know about the SB Acoustics, but I guess it should be possible to remove the faceplate as well.
Heissmann have a number of tests with good tweeters in WG148 and WG300 waveguides here.
Finally, augerpro started a thread about open source waveguides for 3D printing. They have a bunch of designs for various tweeters, and he might make a waveguide for the Monkey Coffin.
mbrennwa: I always remove faceplate from Scan Speak tweeters to fit the WG. In that case throat diameter is 38mm. I have also fitted XT25 to WG300, WG300 throat edge was precisely sanded to flat and to have throat diameter 38mm. Then just press fitted to XT25 without faceplate.
For this project, the best way would cooperation with Augerpro.
For this project, the best way would cooperation with Augerpro.
It is an Al horn and the DI matches well with the TD8M and is not too high.
I wanted to see the 4 kHz peak shape Parts Express is mentioning and difficult to compensate with a passive filter. I don't see that kind of peak in some measurements I found.
Yes, sure, I also removed the faceplate. But not all Scans will fit the 38mm throat, such as the Scan 6600 in my example linked earlier.
Yes. My (current) idea for the Monkey Coffin is a Scan R2904 in a custom waveguide, but nothing finalized yet. I discussed this with augerpro, and I have a pair of R2904 on the way to me to try with a waveguide. I liked this tweeter very much in earlier builds, and waveguides tend to work better with ring radiators than with (large) domes.
Just some thought. I was looking to the Faital HF10AK datasheet, it has a sensitivity of 110 dB. So to become 90 dB in the Tower XL, we have to attenuate 20 dB!
Isn't this not a little bit ridiculous?
What I wanna say, are these drivers not more intended for high efficiency (PA) systems around 100 dB sensitivity and more, like Mbrennwa also mentioned before.
We can place an L-pad, 90 % of the amplifier power will be dissipated in heat.
Sorry that I give this remark only now.
Isn't this not a little bit ridiculous?
What I wanna say, are these drivers not more intended for high efficiency (PA) systems around 100 dB sensitivity and more, like Mbrennwa also mentioned before.
We can place an L-pad, 90 % of the amplifier power will be dissipated in heat.
Sorry that I give this remark only now.
Hi Pida,
To fit the Vifa XT25 to WG300, you don't use an adapter then?
Have you measurements also of this one?
Edit: Looking to the waveguide drawing, I understand now how you did fit it.
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Paul,
measurement is in this project. Measured from ~1m, mic placed between WG and midrange. It also shows cabinet it was measured in.
N164 :: Pkaudio
Attached image shows the idea of mounting. I am sorry, this was one of my first projects, I do not have detailed photos. Orange color represents 3mm mdf ring, sitting on the WG, I used silicon glue to fix it, it also added some weight and supressed resonances. After that I used another 3mm ring, representing by red line, and sanded away the rest of the throat. After sanding, that "red" ring is removed, and you can fit the tweeter, just press it with 4 bolts and another piece of MDF . These 3+3mm provided the right throat diameter. You will have to experiment a bit. Photo with blue plastic shows just the first version of attachment, used for testing, but it shows the idea.
measurement is in this project. Measured from ~1m, mic placed between WG and midrange. It also shows cabinet it was measured in.
N164 :: Pkaudio
Attached image shows the idea of mounting. I am sorry, this was one of my first projects, I do not have detailed photos. Orange color represents 3mm mdf ring, sitting on the WG, I used silicon glue to fix it, it also added some weight and supressed resonances. After that I used another 3mm ring, representing by red line, and sanded away the rest of the throat. After sanding, that "red" ring is removed, and you can fit the tweeter, just press it with 4 bolts and another piece of MDF . These 3+3mm provided the right throat diameter. You will have to experiment a bit. Photo with blue plastic shows just the first version of attachment, used for testing, but it shows the idea.
Attachments
The amplifier power will not be dissipated at 90% because crossover splits signal in different paths, so only 90% of the power at HF path will be dissipated.
Probably 90% of the power is in the LF and MF that don't need attenuation.
You know this better then me, but is import to point that you wrote a wrong sentence.
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