Hi GM,
I have two pairs of TABAQs at home. The 3" driver goes to 55Hz before it starts dropping. My pair with 4" drivers goes down to 45Hz, before dropping.
Very satisfactory bass in the bedroom, and even in a larger than usual living room. Although, I don't expect techno concert loud from either. They excel with small ensembles and voices, but I do push them a bit sometimes, playing more electronica like Daft Punk and Infected Mushroom. They can handle it well enough.
Like you said, if they were without stuffing, it might be a problem at the vent. But the stuffing helps cut down unwanted harmonics, and it also cleans up the bass, making it tighter than a free flowing TL line.
So, I can attest that Bjorn's design sounds good, without running them at ear splitting levels, which would be hard for a 3 or 4" driver anyway! 🙂
I have two pairs of TABAQs at home. The 3" driver goes to 55Hz before it starts dropping. My pair with 4" drivers goes down to 45Hz, before dropping.
Very satisfactory bass in the bedroom, and even in a larger than usual living room. Although, I don't expect techno concert loud from either. They excel with small ensembles and voices, but I do push them a bit sometimes, playing more electronica like Daft Punk and Infected Mushroom. They can handle it well enough.
Like you said, if they were without stuffing, it might be a problem at the vent. But the stuffing helps cut down unwanted harmonics, and it also cleans up the bass, making it tighter than a free flowing TL line.
So, I can attest that Bjorn's design sounds good, without running them at ear splitting levels, which would be hard for a 3 or 4" driver anyway! 🙂
Hi X, perceval, how are you guys doing?😀
Last time we were hanging out in the KaZba thread where I asked your opinion about one driver:
ACR official site
then X said:
Guess what: I managed to get WinISD on a borrowed laptop. Long story short, you wanna help me see if this driver can be good in an MLTL?
Using the default result, Vb is 64.76L. I don't mind having it as tall as 115cm, as wide as the driver, let's use 20cm, and 28cm deep. That is 45.2x7.8x11 inches.
Please let me know your initial thoughts on this, and if there's any information you need from me. Thank you so much.
Last time we were hanging out in the KaZba thread where I asked your opinion about one driver:
ACR official site
then X said:
Guess what: I managed to get WinISD on a borrowed laptop. Long story short, you wanna help me see if this driver can be good in an MLTL?
Using the default result, Vb is 64.76L. I don't mind having it as tall as 115cm, as wide as the driver, let's use 20cm, and 28cm deep. That is 45.2x7.8x11 inches.
Please let me know your initial thoughts on this, and if there's any information you need from me. Thank you so much.
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Hello Jonathan,
I know X is quite busy at the moment, and I'll be out of the house for a couple of days. Hope you are not in a rush!
I forgot about this, so, please forgive me if I repeat myself.
That driver (although I am basing this on what's written, as the pictures of FR are not showing up on their site) seems to reach 10kHz only. Did you plan to add a tweeter to the setup?
I'll fire up my PC when I come back.
Have a good weekend!
I know X is quite busy at the moment, and I'll be out of the house for a couple of days. Hope you are not in a rush!
I forgot about this, so, please forgive me if I repeat myself.
That driver (although I am basing this on what's written, as the pictures of FR are not showing up on their site) seems to reach 10kHz only. Did you plan to add a tweeter to the setup?
I'll fire up my PC when I come back.
Have a good weekend!
Hi perceval,
I am not in a rush 🙂
Yes you're right I am planning to use a tweeter. Also, seeing that there is no graph and I have no measurement tools, I also would appreciate any assistance to figure out the response graph and where and how to cross to the tweeter. Please let me know if there's anything I need to check in WinISD and post here. Thanks.
I am not in a rush 🙂
Yes you're right I am planning to use a tweeter. Also, seeing that there is no graph and I have no measurement tools, I also would appreciate any assistance to figure out the response graph and where and how to cross to the tweeter. Please let me know if there's anything I need to check in WinISD and post here. Thanks.
You can't design a crossover without a mic.
Since there's time, look around to get a measurement mic. They are not so expensive, and invaluable when it comes to DIY Audio
Since there's time, look around to get a measurement mic. They are not so expensive, and invaluable when it comes to DIY Audio
D'oh. OK not to derail this thread, just a quick question: can I DIY it, ala Panasonic WM-61? Or maybe look at Dayton iMM6 the small one for mobile phone? Do I also need interface like a mic preamp or external soundcard? Thank you so much.
If you get UMIK-1 from miniDSP or UMM-6 fromDayton, they are USB. If you get something like a EMM-6 from Dayton you will need a microphone preamp with 48v phantom power and sound card. Some sound interfaces like Focusrite have built in 48v phantom power and are more aimed at getting the DSP working quickly.
You could make a mic with a Pan WM61 capsule - but not worth it. The commercial mics come with a calibration. You also need a hand held SPL meter to calibrate the mic response to an absolute value.
You could make a mic with a Pan WM61 capsule - but not worth it. The commercial mics come with a calibration. You also need a hand held SPL meter to calibrate the mic response to an absolute value.
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I don't know if you plan to use your mic with a mobile phone... I'm not sure that would work.
Best is a cheap computer, with free REW software, and a cheap USB mic like X mentioned, the UMIK-1 or UMM-6.
Best is a cheap computer, with free REW software, and a cheap USB mic like X mentioned, the UMIK-1 or UMM-6.
Alright points taken guys. Let me look into the mic situation. 🙂
Back to topic: when you have time please help me look into whether or not this driver is worthy 🙂 🙂
Thanks so much.
Back to topic: when you have time please help me look into whether or not this driver is worthy 🙂 🙂
Thanks so much.
Away from home... Camping at the beach, looking for a wave to surf.
Got surfing waves in your corner? 😉
Got surfing waves in your corner? 😉
Enjoy the waves..I'm a city boy, Jakarta, nothing close to surf-wave here, sorry.
Although you've probably heard about some spots in Indonesia for surfing 🙂
Although you've probably heard about some spots in Indonesia for surfing 🙂
I would not survive long in a city, I need space! 🙂
Yes, didn't get the chance to visit some of those spots yet... one day. Closest to you so far was a trip to Bali a couple years ago.
Alright, your woofer seems ok in a 344 cm2 enclosure that is 0.95 cm tall.
Vent is 33 cm2 and 0.7 cm long.
The output is there, although there are drivers out there that will get better bass extension, push it lower than that, but they usually end up in a much bigger than this enclosure. This is a very reasonable size.
Yes, didn't get the chance to visit some of those spots yet... one day. Closest to you so far was a trip to Bali a couple years ago.
Alright, your woofer seems ok in a 344 cm2 enclosure that is 0.95 cm tall.
Vent is 33 cm2 and 0.7 cm long.
The output is there, although there are drivers out there that will get better bass extension, push it lower than that, but they usually end up in a much bigger than this enclosure. This is a very reasonable size.
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Thanks for the sim work Perceval. I am a bit tied up with several other projects and appreciate the assistance.
This driver and cabinet combo does look good. Note that a BSC will probably be needed to get a balanced sound output to avoid sounding too bright.
This driver and cabinet combo does look good. Note that a BSC will probably be needed to get a balanced sound output to avoid sounding too bright.
Haha yeah I was born this way, didnt know any better.😀
Thanks for running the sim. If we make it taller and bigger will it help with the extension?
That would be like 18x19x95cm inside.
And the vent is 18x1.83cm opening, but vent length is only 0.7cm? Just checking to see if I got it correctly.
What about driver placement, from your sim itu looks like in the middle of the line? I kinda like1/5 of the way, close to the closed end so I put the tweeter close to it, what do you think?
Hi Jonathan,
I should always proof read my post, but I don't always, especially after a camping night when we didn't sleep much! Some family member having trouble with the police in China... long story short, young kid got scared, all fine now!
Yes, 18x18x95 will be great. Making it taller or bigger will unbalance the whole thing, and make it sound boomy. Very un-natural.
Your vent dimensions are perfect and thanks for picking up my mistake... it is 7cm long... not 0.7cm. Damn beer!
My sim had the driver at 42cm (centre point of the driver) from the top.
If you place the driver at 20cm from the top, you get this -2dB ripple between 200 and 350Hz. If you are ok with that, then go ahead and place the driver higher up.
If your tweeter has a closed back, it will be fine. If you have to make a box for it, you'll have to adjust dimension a little to compensate.
As X mentioned, you may or may not need a BSC.
Placing the enclosure up on the wall will give it a bass boost, and you might not need it. If you prefer the extra imaging from the enclosures off the wall behind them, then you might consider a BSC to bring the top down a bit. All will be according to your taste.
Hopefully all this is correct as there were a few beers involved again tonight! 🙂
I should always proof read my post, but I don't always, especially after a camping night when we didn't sleep much! Some family member having trouble with the police in China... long story short, young kid got scared, all fine now!
Yes, 18x18x95 will be great. Making it taller or bigger will unbalance the whole thing, and make it sound boomy. Very un-natural.
Your vent dimensions are perfect and thanks for picking up my mistake... it is 7cm long... not 0.7cm. Damn beer!
My sim had the driver at 42cm (centre point of the driver) from the top.
If you place the driver at 20cm from the top, you get this -2dB ripple between 200 and 350Hz. If you are ok with that, then go ahead and place the driver higher up.
If your tweeter has a closed back, it will be fine. If you have to make a box for it, you'll have to adjust dimension a little to compensate.
As X mentioned, you may or may not need a BSC.
Placing the enclosure up on the wall will give it a bass boost, and you might not need it. If you prefer the extra imaging from the enclosures off the wall behind them, then you might consider a BSC to bring the top down a bit. All will be according to your taste.
Hopefully all this is correct as there were a few beers involved again tonight! 🙂
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While I agree that in converting a reflex alignment to MLTL there's what I consider a 'natural' alignment, there's also the driver's optimal location plus its normal seated ear height to consider in most cases, so often needs to be [considerably] longer, which in turn dictates an increasingly larger cross sectional area [CSA], with neither 'boomy' nor 'unnatural' being in the lexicon of their praise of literally dozens of happy/satisfied MLTL builders/owners around the world that I'm aware of and a few dozen more if I include all the ones I built way back when.
So curious what was built that made you come to this conclusion?
GM
Thanks so much for confirming and clarifying some of the information. Good to know your folks are doing okay. GM has an interesting question that is of my interest as well. Thanks again Perceval and others for generously sharing.Hi Jonathan,
I should always proof read my post, but I don't always, especially after a camping night when we didn't sleep much! Some family member having trouble with the police in China... long story short, young kid got scared, all fine now!
Yes, 18x18x95 will be great. Making it taller or bigger will unbalance the whole thing, and make it sound boomy. Very un-natural.
Your vent dimensions are perfect and thanks for picking up my mistake... it is 7cm long... not 0.7cm. Damn beer!
My sim had the driver at 42cm (centre point of the driver) from the top.
If you place the driver at 20cm from the top, you get this -2dB ripple between 200 and 350Hz. If you are ok with that, then go ahead and place the driver higher up.
If your tweeter has a closed back, it will be fine. If you have to make a box for it, you'll have to adjust dimension a little to compensate.
As X mentioned, you may or may not need a BSC.
Placing the enclosure up on the wall will give it a bass boost, and you might not need it. If you prefer the extra imaging from the enclosures off the wall behind them, then you might consider a BSC to bring the top down a bit. All will be according to your taste.
Hopefully all this is correct as there were a few beers involved again tonight! 🙂
Usually adding stuffing in MLTL from closed end to driver and maybe lining two of the walls with felt gets rid of boomy bass.
This is what happens when you go bigger and taller.
Yes, it goes down lower, but if the room picks up that 31Hz bump, it will resonate throughout.
I must admit, this driver behaves quite well, even when it's on a bigger enclosures.
I've seen a lot of drivers create huge bass spikes that would have made listening uncomfortable.
In this case, it's not so bad. I still don't like the bump, but if by any chance the room picks up a 45Hz, then, it would be quite impressive for this 6.5".
Yes, it goes down lower, but if the room picks up that 31Hz bump, it will resonate throughout.
I must admit, this driver behaves quite well, even when it's on a bigger enclosures.
I've seen a lot of drivers create huge bass spikes that would have made listening uncomfortable.
In this case, it's not so bad. I still don't like the bump, but if by any chance the room picks up a 45Hz, then, it would be quite impressive for this 6.5".
