You are just seeing the front of the crowd. It went back four times that distance, and there were another ~500 behind the stage (we had coaxial speakers pointing to the rear, so we could provide 360 degrees of sound around the artcar)
In the post party briefing the festival suggested numbers were around 4000 at sunset, but I think 3000 would be a more accurate count.
It was ok for volume if you were up the front, but up the back of the crowds drunken chatter was starting to rise above the music.
Interestingly for the first time the bass was somewhat absorbed by the crowds density, (I could not get close to the artcar it was so packed) and the usual 180 degree cancellations in front of the subs (35hz at 10 meters) were not present. So there was more bass felt...wierd.
We find its a nice size system for about 600 people. The dancefloor usually goes back some 15 meters, and we park the artcar in a natural ampitheater.
The subs do have some grunt...and we run the bass louder than the tops (not flat) for a big bass feel. But we want more....so we are going to build two more subs. There are really only two syntripps serving the crowd...and the other two are fills for the front at a lower volume.
We loose alot of bass as the subs are mounted up on the carts, with space underneath. We are going to build a baffle to try to keep the bass moving forward, and not under and out the back of the carts.
Hello,
I am very interested in building some Syntripps, Though there is one thing I can't get my head around.
A normal 2-Way-PA-Top, 15" Low-Mid-Driver and 1.4" HF-Compressiondriver, which I think is a good comparison, since 2x10" equals 1x15" in area, has a sensivity of around 98 dB in fullspace.
The Syntripp only has 92 dB in fullspace. 6 dB is quiet a difference I can't really understand where that Difference is coming from?
Kind regards,
Finn
I am very interested in building some Syntripps, Though there is one thing I can't get my head around.
A normal 2-Way-PA-Top, 15" Low-Mid-Driver and 1.4" HF-Compressiondriver, which I think is a good comparison, since 2x10" equals 1x15" in area, has a sensivity of around 98 dB in fullspace.
The Syntripp only has 92 dB in fullspace. 6 dB is quiet a difference I can't really understand where that Difference is coming from?
Kind regards,
Finn
Finn,
The difference in sensitivity is simply the difference between full-space and half-space, the usual sensitivity measurement condition.
The B&C 10CL51 is rated on it's spec sheet as 96dB, a pair being 99 dB in the low end of the response, though the horn-loaded mid output sensitivity is greater.
Art
The difference in sensitivity is simply the difference between full-space and half-space, the usual sensitivity measurement condition.
The B&C 10CL51 is rated on it's spec sheet as 96dB, a pair being 99 dB in the low end of the response, though the horn-loaded mid output sensitivity is greater.
Art
I'm not ordained, so no blessings shall be issued ;^)
There are many ceramic magnet 1.5"/1.4" exit 3" diaphragm drivers that will work well in the SynTripP if weight is not a concern, like the B&C DE82TN, B&C DE90TN, DE700TN, DE750TN.
For neo drivers, the Eminence N314T seems OK, though output is not great on the low end of the crossover range which could be a problem at high output levels.
The B&C DE820TN and DE920TN look good.
There are probably drivers from Faital Pro, 18Sound, and Radian that could fill the bill too- look for 3" diaphragm units with response from 500-18,000Hz with smooth response.
There are many ceramic magnet 1.5"/1.4" exit 3" diaphragm drivers that will work well in the SynTripP if weight is not a concern, like the B&C DE82TN, B&C DE90TN, DE700TN, DE750TN.
For neo drivers, the Eminence N314T seems OK, though output is not great on the low end of the crossover range which could be a problem at high output levels.
The B&C DE820TN and DE920TN look good.
There are probably drivers from Faital Pro, 18Sound, and Radian that could fill the bill too- look for 3" diaphragm units with response from 500-18,000Hz with smooth response.
High Art, firstly want to thank you and all involved with the project, The Syntripp and others
I've decided on keystones for new subs, I'll more than likely only be able to budget two by the end of the year, currently have some eminence beta 8's in horns that i made, and peerless CD's (included pic)
I understand even one keystone will outrun a Trip, I read back at #53 about 18 degree splays, would vertical be preferred or can horizontal work as well?
Or would it still be better to perhaps look at a bigger syn like a dual B&C 12NDL76? due to likely-hood of having 4 keystones eventually
Best Regards
-Kai
I've decided on keystones for new subs, I'll more than likely only be able to budget two by the end of the year, currently have some eminence beta 8's in horns that i made, and peerless CD's (included pic)
I understand even one keystone will outrun a Trip, I read back at #53 about 18 degree splays, would vertical be preferred or can horizontal work as well?
Or would it still be better to perhaps look at a bigger syn like a dual B&C 12NDL76? due to likely-hood of having 4 keystones eventually
Best Regards
-Kai
Attachments
Kai,
To prevent HF overlap, and the some comb filtering, around an 18 degree splay would be used vertically. Horizontally, about a 45 degree splay between cabinets would be required.
If you like a 6-10 (or more) dB LF "haystack" response, one SynTripP may be enough for four Keystone subs.
If you are planning to prove sound for loud bands using 8x12" stacks etc., you should be looking for top cabinets with more SPL capability, or a more modular solution like a line array.
Art
Thanks Art,
I'll mostly be playing sound for recorded music, Psytrance, Techno, DnB so some haystacking on the subs won't be unwanted.
I'll be aiming for the 5" taller keystones too for abit lower extension, probably with a HD215 style kickbin above the keystones, all my events are outdoors with chances of random rain coming through the duration of the event, which is why I prefer to go horn loaded and angled down slightly over linearray for weather protection, the keystones with the extenders+mesh and acoustically transparent screen over the mouth sold me for performance to pack size ratio while being weather resistant. the size and performance of the SynTripP's is also why im leaning towards them as I dont have unlimited pack room.
Kai.
I'll mostly be playing sound for recorded music, Psytrance, Techno, DnB so some haystacking on the subs won't be unwanted.
I'll be aiming for the 5" taller keystones too for abit lower extension, probably with a HD215 style kickbin above the keystones, all my events are outdoors with chances of random rain coming through the duration of the event, which is why I prefer to go horn loaded and angled down slightly over linearray for weather protection, the keystones with the extenders+mesh and acoustically transparent screen over the mouth sold me for performance to pack size ratio while being weather resistant. the size and performance of the SynTripP's is also why im leaning towards them as I dont have unlimited pack room.
Kai.
Hello to all involved in this nice project, Special thanks to Art for sharing and the detailed explanations. I decide to build at least two of them for my party PA after reading the complete thread twice. At this time i've completed a full 3D modell in Inventor to check the dimensions provided by Finbot and Art and creating a set of drawings and milling templates. My only concern is the second horn expansion. I can't figure out the rigth dimensions. The angles are clear so far, but the horn depth is somewhat vague. Maybe someone who build the 2 expansion could give me some hints.
Thanks
Laaker
Thanks
Laaker
Laaker,
The secondary horn is 41" wide x 25.5" tall x 7.5" deep (104.1 x 64.8 x 19 centimeters), rough diagram in post #41.
Cheers,
Art
It's not looking good from this angle.
