You could go online and key in the frequency you want to get the values of the components you need, but that would be a generic XO and not matched to the drivers you have, nor the room you will listen to.
Even taking someone else's values will not be the best as they would be for his/her setup and not yours.
Method 1 I told you will give you an XO that is matched to your own baffle construction, positioning of the drivers on the baffle and in the room you will listen to.
It's easy to understand why second option (DSP) is more versatile. Requires more resources, though.
Again, regarding the passive XO, things are not that simple. BSC comes in talks, impedance compensation and so on. It's not that easy as an online XO calculator to properly design a passive XO.
Back to our 1772, one build I found, uses a 0.15mH sunted by a 1 Ohm and then a Zobel made with 3.3uF and 17 Ohm... Real life measurements wold be the best but not everybody wants to spend money on such equippment.
Here is a picture of the actual crossover available on sale:
Power Trio Frequenzweiche | DIY
As you can see the marks from the components are erased.
Again, regarding the passive XO, things are not that simple. BSC comes in talks, impedance compensation and so on. It's not that easy as an online XO calculator to properly design a passive XO.
Back to our 1772, one build I found, uses a 0.15mH sunted by a 1 Ohm and then a Zobel made with 3.3uF and 17 Ohm... Real life measurements wold be the best but not everybody wants to spend money on such equippment.
Here is a picture of the actual crossover available on sale:
Power Trio Frequenzweiche | DIY
As you can see the marks from the components are erased.
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Well... 2 of those generic crossovers will cost you 300 euros... that's bout $355 usd.
A simple mic will cost $100, then the free XSim, and finally you can measure and get all the right values for your build and $255 to buy the parts at a place like Parts-Express... I think you can still make it, and maybe, just maybe even save money.
I, for one, think this is money well spent, instead on spending 300 euros on an already build XO with unknown parts (wait, I see Aucharm on the cap... that's a pretty cheap Chinese cap) and unknown frequency cut off.... and if you don't like it or doesn't work well with your Alpha, you've lost 300 euros.
For me, it's a no-brainer where I want to spend my money.
A simple mic will cost $100, then the free XSim, and finally you can measure and get all the right values for your build and $255 to buy the parts at a place like Parts-Express... I think you can still make it, and maybe, just maybe even save money.
I, for one, think this is money well spent, instead on spending 300 euros on an already build XO with unknown parts (wait, I see Aucharm on the cap... that's a pretty cheap Chinese cap) and unknown frequency cut off.... and if you don't like it or doesn't work well with your Alpha, you've lost 300 euros.
For me, it's a no-brainer where I want to spend my money.
Those XOs are not quite generic, they were designed for the Power Trio... I pointed to that link as a source for reverse engineering. I would have bought my own quality components and still be under 100Euro for a pair.
Back to the MiniDSP which version do you use? I wonder if 2x4 version is good enough or 2x4HD is a better choice.
Back to the MiniDSP which version do you use? I wonder if 2x4 version is good enough or 2x4HD is a better choice.
I never heard realistic sounding digital setup. I also compared my amp with digitals power DACs & etc.
Also I was heard too much loudspeakers with minidsp, and only one thing comes to mind - just turn it off.
Why you choosing alpha's? I was compared alpha's in open baffle with lowther dx3 in right calculated BLH and 1772 BLH in same room. Alpha's just produce 80-90hz boomy bass. I was totally disappointed by Alphas
I've seen lot of good feedback for this combo (Alpha15 - W8-1772). I'm already in since I already paid half the price for the drivers (America to Europe... long trip).
"It is very difficult to design the perfect passive crossover network, which is a very good reason to use a bi-amplified system with a good quality electronic crossover network, whose characteristics are far more easily controlled than any passive design. (See Bi-Amplification - Not Quite Magic (But Close))"
Words of Rod Elliott
Words of Rod Elliott
Take a trip down Wesayso's hometown and you might change your mind.
Could also be room related. Having room treatments really helps with boomy bass, and Open Baffle is really sensitive to positioning in the room, which also could contribute to boomy bass.
Yes, please lets discuss the W8 1772 in this topic.
I recently buyed me a pair and temporarily installed them in a 32 liter bassreflex housing to test them. I used some pritex and synthetic damping. The first impression was a fast and direct sounding speaker. But I also found the high regions poor and sometimes even annoying.
Below the results of some measurement
The graph needs some clarification. The upper graphs are measurements of the microphone close to the loudspeaker (1 cm), without filtering
creamy: the normal cone
light blue: the whizzer
purple: basreflex port option 1
orange: basreflex port option 2 (my preferred one)
The graphs below (green and blue) are gated measurements at a distance of 80cm.
green: measurement without filter showing the increasing level of high frequencies
blue: measurement using the 'brine' filter below
This filter equalizes the graph pretty good. Unfortunately I found it doesn't sound well. They sounded dull, without the good stereo image and direct sound I know from good quality fullrange speakers. I tried to tweak the filter by replacing the 2mH with 1,1mH and the 10 ohm with 8 ohm. This lifts up the curve a little and brings back some treble but I am still far away from good sound. Any suggestions how to improve this?
The sound is dull and unrealistic. I agree that the graph is going up at the higher end but most of this is beyond the frequencies most of the music is in. What concerns me is the area between 700hz - 5 khz. The nearfield measurements show very different behaviour of cone and whizzer. The sum of this is a relatively flat graph but I think the differences in phasing in this highly audible area lead to the dull experience.
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fwiw - one of my 1772 is in a Karlson box - no BSC - a couple of sound files
YouTube
YouTube
I've had it in a K8 Karlson before - about 1 cubic foot total external bulk - it worked pretty well at "K10" bulk (scale relative to "K15") - someone talented could refine that size. A bit larger than K8 and with larger aperture would sound pretty good. A sub would be needed at that size. Don't "cup" the very top of the chamber.
Here's 1772 in a 1955 "K8" - it did not sound as harsh in the room as it did on the Zoom mics - but still it probably did exhibit some artifacts - experiment with the aperture whether radial arc or other. There may have been zero damping material in the rear chamber when I made the recording.
YouTube
here's one alternate aperture to a radial arc
YouTube
YouTube
I've had it in a K8 Karlson before - about 1 cubic foot total external bulk - it worked pretty well at "K10" bulk (scale relative to "K15") - someone talented could refine that size. A bit larger than K8 and with larger aperture would sound pretty good. A sub would be needed at that size. Don't "cup" the very top of the chamber.
Here's 1772 in a 1955 "K8" - it did not sound as harsh in the room as it did on the Zoom mics - but still it probably did exhibit some artifacts - experiment with the aperture whether radial arc or other. There may have been zero damping material in the rear chamber when I made the recording.
YouTube
here's one alternate aperture to a radial arc
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Then, don't listen to it at 80cm distance!
Joking aside.... It sounds like you have a phase issue.
The best experience I got with the 1772 is when I added DRC to the mix.
And it needs bass support.
When I coupled the 1772 with a 15" woofer, it freed the 1772 from doing bass work and let it shine on what it did best... from the human voice to the saxophone. Then, that 700Hz to 5kHz was fine... especially with DRC.
The 1772 is a beast that needs to be tamed to fully appreciate it. Using DRC correction brought it to life, and I can't go back to listening to the raw response anymore.
Give it a try, have a look here:
A convolution based alternative to electrical loudspeaker correction networks
Very interesting input and I downloaded and read the files. If I understand it well I can use my mic and Tascam to apply this. But then I nead a laptop to listen music and the signal will pass my Tascam with limited sound quality.
I also own two Hypex AS2.100d. One of these should be appropriate to do the same. Unfortunately these two hypex modules drive my 3 way active.
I didn't expected to need these tricks to get a good sound from my 1772's. Below the 1772 in the Spawn cabinet with some neighbours.
<Unfortunately the square photo is stretched to landscape by DIYaudio>
Yesterday I changed the damping (using mineral wool now) and changed the filter.
The sound now is less dull and instruments and voices now can be imaged in the room. So its better but I still have the feeling it can be improved. But perhaps I just have to wait untill the speakers have been played enough time to come to live.
I also own two Hypex AS2.100d. One of these should be appropriate to do the same. Unfortunately these two hypex modules drive my 3 way active.
I didn't expected to need these tricks to get a good sound from my 1772's. Below the 1772 in the Spawn cabinet with some neighbours.
<Unfortunately the square photo is stretched to landscape by DIYaudio>
Yesterday I changed the damping (using mineral wool now) and changed the filter.
The sound now is less dull and instruments and voices now can be imaged in the room. So its better but I still have the feeling it can be improved. But perhaps I just have to wait untill the speakers have been played enough time to come to live.
I'm using JRiver for the convolution engine.
I am using either the miniDSP HD's own XO, or using FIR filters loaded into the miniDSP HD. I have played from 150Hz to 350Hz... I believe I have settled on 250Hz, using a Harsch XO.
Very Christmas season!
I doubt my wife would let me have big red horns in the living room!
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