Forward to me means a quality where two level matched tracks with the same EQ and effects, perhaps of the same instrument at the same time, but with different preamps, ADCs, mics, etc., may end up sounding like one is closer to front of the mix, almost as though it were at a slightly higher level, or EQed more brightly.
More broadly, things tend to sit more forward or back in a mix based on things like HF air, associated with HF attenuation over distance, reverberation, associated with distance in a room, etc.
In this case I was referring to a type of subtle brightness not attributable or exactly fixable by frequency response variations.
More broadly, things tend to sit more forward or back in a mix based on things like HF air, associated with HF attenuation over distance, reverberation, associated with distance in a room, etc.
In this case I was referring to a type of subtle brightness not attributable or exactly fixable by frequency response variations.
I Agree. No one should complain for 072 in his equipment!
Actually, in 90's, it was typical that the studio owner got mad when he found TL072 in his $$$ console. LOL.
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Thank you. Broadly how I would use the term, except for your last paragraph. I am at a loss for a mechanism for what you noted at the moment though.
The DAC-3 is now working, and I can confirm it is more clean than the DAC-1.
I can also confirm that ss and vv sound the same. I can only attribute the differences in ratings to a failure to compare them directly, ear fatigue, and less than pristine playback equipment.
I can also confirm that the other file differences essentially remain as rated. They sound different from each other.
I can also see that although I have been putting off accepting reality, the 20-year old Bryston 4-B power amp will need to be the next upgrade project.
Other failures to agree between the listeners, IMHO, can be most likely explained by different playback equipment, and the sometimes associated struggles to hear small differences on gear that is sometimes barely up to the task.
I am going to ask my son later, who couldn't hear any file differences last time, if he can hear any now with the new DAC. He has normal hearing ability, but untrained listening skills. If he can hear differences, then I would almost be inclined to say that many people with normal hearing and very brief coaching could likely do the same given the same equipment. We'll see.
I can also confirm that ss and vv sound the same. I can only attribute the differences in ratings to a failure to compare them directly, ear fatigue, and less than pristine playback equipment.
I can also confirm that the other file differences essentially remain as rated. They sound different from each other.
I can also see that although I have been putting off accepting reality, the 20-year old Bryston 4-B power amp will need to be the next upgrade project.
Other failures to agree between the listeners, IMHO, can be most likely explained by different playback equipment, and the sometimes associated struggles to hear small differences on gear that is sometimes barely up to the task.
I am going to ask my son later, who couldn't hear any file differences last time, if he can hear any now with the new DAC. He has normal hearing ability, but untrained listening skills. If he can hear differences, then I would almost be inclined to say that many people with normal hearing and very brief coaching could likely do the same given the same equipment. We'll see.
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I think it's simply subtle distortion. It's like adding artificial harmonics, something there are VST plugins to do, although those usually don't sound very good. It sounds a little brighter and more forward, most likely IMO, because they are mostly at HF and so the perception is that the listener is closer to the source.
There are preamps for adding that type of effect to lead vocals or acoustic guitar, for example, things it tends to sound good on. But it could be a problem if there was too much on a background instrument that was fighting for attention with a lead vocal that didn't have it. No way to fix it properly really, but to re-record one or both. EQ doesn't really undo it if it is unwanted, or add it if it is needed. Unless perhaps, there is a slightly distorted EQ, compressor, or something handy that can add some to the vocal track. Hardware is best, digital usually not so good. But even at that, it can take very particular hardware to get the right touch.
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I would expect some of their professional customers do that. Don't know that Benchmarks' engineer has the brain DSP for it. I would think they would bring in mastering engineers and so forth, and if so I would suspect the problem just could be that they rely on ABX. I would suggest they get some people in there who are top mastering engineers and let them do a sort test. Some jaws just might drop. We would have to see.
EDIT: But, to answer your question, I don't like the feeling. I guess it's a cognitive dissonance thing. I would like to see it resolved.
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I've looked at Pavel's measurements, it's more than subtle. Did you hear the same on headphones as on the speakers? The reason I ask is that the peaky response of you NS-10s will no doubt bring out things that are not actually intended, not unlike riding the gain on quiet sections to try and hear the noise floor.
That being said, given how hard you had to try to hear the differences, even coming up with your own sort strategy and at the end of it had no real preference makes relieves my audiophilia nervosa considerably.
I just realised my Benchmark comment was DAC1 vs DAC2 which they stated sound the same except under 2 conditions. I haven't checked what they say on the DAC3, but I have noticed over the last 6 months a lot of the more sensible articles have been removed from their website. I fear marketing is taking over, which would be a shame.
That being said, given how hard you had to try to hear the differences, even coming up with your own sort strategy and at the end of it had no real preference makes relieves my audiophilia nervosa considerably.
I just realised my Benchmark comment was DAC1 vs DAC2 which they stated sound the same except under 2 conditions. I haven't checked what they say on the DAC3, but I have noticed over the last 6 months a lot of the more sensible articles have been removed from their website. I fear marketing is taking over, which would be a shame.
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Bill, it's distinctly less hard with the DAC-3. Really. Although, I still don't know if I think it's transparent or not. Take some more time for that.
I didn't think the DAC-1 was transparent even though it was much better than the Lynx-2. That's because everything coming out of it, headphone amp, or power amp and speakers, sounded somehow the same regardless of where it was recorded and mastered. The only explanation I could think of was that I was probably noticing the sound of the DAC-1.
Haven't even tried the DAC-3 headphone amp yet. The DAC-1 didn't have a great one, not as good as the line outs. But, I'll give it a try and let you know.
I didn't think the DAC-1 was transparent even though it was much better than the Lynx-2. That's because everything coming out of it, headphone amp, or power amp and speakers, sounded somehow the same regardless of where it was recorded and mastered. The only explanation I could think of was that I was probably noticing the sound of the DAC-1.
Haven't even tried the DAC-3 headphone amp yet. The DAC-1 didn't have a great one, not as good as the line outs. But, I'll give it a try and let you know.
The reason for no preference was because I was rating the degree of forward-ness. As I explained in another post, there are uses for that, such as an effect in music production. It can sound good sometimes.
Also, I didn't think I liked the sound of PMA's D-A-D chain and didn't know how much it was influencing the sound.
Also, can't rate an opamp for my preference unless I can clearly hear what it sounds like it the circuit in which it will be used.
So, for various reasons I don't have a preference. That's my opinion.
Also, I didn't think I liked the sound of PMA's D-A-D chain and didn't know how much it was influencing the sound.
Also, can't rate an opamp for my preference unless I can clearly hear what it sounds like it the circuit in which it will be used.
So, for various reasons I don't have a preference. That's my opinion.
Regarding the looks of Pavel's measurements, I saw some THD for 10kHz. I can't even hear 10kHz, much less it's harmonics. I would have preferred to see more extensive measurements. Also, I thought some of that was though his D-A-D which has it's own floor.
And it could even be some people are going to need to get some new test equipment as the newer generation stuff comes out. If we can't measure what people hear, we either need better equipment and tests or we need to including listening tests in design.
That may sound unpalatable and something people don't want to hear. I get that. I don't want to think about paying for a newer power amp. It's not painless.
And it could even be some people are going to need to get some new test equipment as the newer generation stuff comes out. If we can't measure what people hear, we either need better equipment and tests or we need to including listening tests in design.
That may sound unpalatable and something people don't want to hear. I get that. I don't want to think about paying for a newer power amp. It's not painless.
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Pavel, I did listen to that once with the DAC-1 earlier. I thought it sounded more distorted than I imagined the source file sounded. Unfortunately, I am stuck with trying to imagine that. If you want to send me a private link to the source file, I would be happy to give you opinion either publicly or in private.
However, I did think it sounded less distorted than with some of the opamps in the circuit, I think less distorted than with all of them. But, I didn't give it enough time to give a careful opinion. I will get back to that later, I haven't forgotten.
But, you are probably aware I returned a DACMagicPlus because I thought it was not up to DAC-1 sound quality. It might have been as good or better than the DAC in the Crane Song HEDD, but it's DAC was never up to it's ADC quality anyway. I wouldn't use the DAC in the HEDD for any purpose if I didn't have to.
However, I did think it sounded less distorted than with some of the opamps in the circuit, I think less distorted than with all of them. But, I didn't give it enough time to give a careful opinion. I will get back to that later, I haven't forgotten.
But, you are probably aware I returned a DACMagicPlus because I thought it was not up to DAC-1 sound quality. It might have been as good or better than the DAC in the Crane Song HEDD, but it's DAC was never up to it's ADC quality anyway. I wouldn't use the DAC in the HEDD for any purpose if I didn't have to.
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