Yes, it is. On the other hand, inexpensive used AP S1 is sometimes available on eBay. My one was purchased over 10 year ago. It is still working perfectly.
I was thinking Analog Discovery 2 is a potential alternative. It is a very useful, inexpensive tool.
same problem with the clio FW 01 11 software , very frustrating my story on measuring gear sofar :
Hello id like to give my problems /expirience here with various loudspeakermeasurement programs hardware .
Tried kirchner Audio Messtechnik von Kirchner Elektronik aus Braunschweig atb pc
well this actually worked , it had a audiocard correction program within and worked using pink noise on a dvd which one then had to measure , worked but didnt have external hardware kind of primitive , cheopo
secondly i bought the kirchner 801 maesurment system , it has hardware with a signal generator , could nt get it to work ever since , seems to me like a unfinished product thrown into the market but not plug and play another 600 euro waisted
Finally thinking all my problems would be over i bought the Clio 11 FW 01 software/ hardware .
First of all it needs a firewire 400 /1394 connection to work properly , remind you in the past 5 years at least nothing that is made has that connection , so youre looking at buying an old laptop to get it to work any way , or a desktop[ with an cardslot which accepts a extra firewire 400 card connection .
After receiving the clio system i then had to buy an old secondhand HP computer , with a fire wire connection , had it working a while , not very reliable though , the relais wouldnt come in half of the time so i had to restart a lot .
After leaving the system unused for half a year it wouldnt restart and kept giving me hardware not found error code 16 , so i sent it back to audiomatica .
They said the digital interface was broken ( dont know how that happened i was always extremely carefull ) and " repaired it " without cost .
Shipping cost all on me off course .
Got it back in september started with another Woofersystem this year and i wanted to measure , nothing same problem, hard ware not found error code 16 .
Wrote them an email and they basically said it was my fault as i was using a firewire 400 / usb connnector going into the desktop computer (which is true usb is not compatible with fire wire 400 but damage seems highly unlikely from the people i asked ), that was this time i had nt used this before , before i only used the HP with firewire 400 connection ??
tried it on the old firewire equipped HP and got the same message hard ware not found error code 16 .
Emailed back to clio and basically got an answer that there is no install problem despite the internet complaints , about 3000 of investment in loudspeakermeasurement gear and still no reliable result , besides the 700 + spent in total on kichner electronic
2 links full of Clio install problems .
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equip...lio-v10-2.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/softw...ling-fail.html
Thinking about sending all the gear back to audiomatica Cllio 11 FW 01 extra microphone (for use without phantom power ) vibration meter totalling about 3000 euro , because i cant use it and clio doesnt answer emails .
Think about it before you purchase anything considering loudspeaker measurement gear ,read the internet first.
I wount adverstise any more for a clio pocket system which works on USB but has limited measuring capabilities , and i also read about some install problems see the link .
Asked clio to swap the clio 11 FW 01 for the much cheaper clio pocket USB system but no answer
Hello id like to give my problems /expirience here with various loudspeakermeasurement programs hardware .
Tried kirchner Audio Messtechnik von Kirchner Elektronik aus Braunschweig atb pc
well this actually worked , it had a audiocard correction program within and worked using pink noise on a dvd which one then had to measure , worked but didnt have external hardware kind of primitive , cheopo
secondly i bought the kirchner 801 maesurment system , it has hardware with a signal generator , could nt get it to work ever since , seems to me like a unfinished product thrown into the market but not plug and play another 600 euro waisted
Finally thinking all my problems would be over i bought the Clio 11 FW 01 software/ hardware .
First of all it needs a firewire 400 /1394 connection to work properly , remind you in the past 5 years at least nothing that is made has that connection , so youre looking at buying an old laptop to get it to work any way , or a desktop[ with an cardslot which accepts a extra firewire 400 card connection .
After receiving the clio system i then had to buy an old secondhand HP computer , with a fire wire connection , had it working a while , not very reliable though , the relais wouldnt come in half of the time so i had to restart a lot .
After leaving the system unused for half a year it wouldnt restart and kept giving me hardware not found error code 16 , so i sent it back to audiomatica .
They said the digital interface was broken ( dont know how that happened i was always extremely carefull ) and " repaired it " without cost .
Shipping cost all on me off course .
Got it back in september started with another Woofersystem this year and i wanted to measure , nothing same problem, hard ware not found error code 16 .
Wrote them an email and they basically said it was my fault as i was using a firewire 400 / usb connnector going into the desktop computer (which is true usb is not compatible with fire wire 400 but damage seems highly unlikely from the people i asked ), that was this time i had nt used this before , before i only used the HP with firewire 400 connection ??
tried it on the old firewire equipped HP and got the same message hard ware not found error code 16 .
Emailed back to clio and basically got an answer that there is no install problem despite the internet complaints , about 3000 of investment in loudspeakermeasurement gear and still no reliable result , besides the 700 + spent in total on kichner electronic
2 links full of Clio install problems .
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equip...lio-v10-2.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/softw...ling-fail.html
Thinking about sending all the gear back to audiomatica Cllio 11 FW 01 extra microphone (for use without phantom power ) vibration meter totalling about 3000 euro , because i cant use it and clio doesnt answer emails .
Think about it before you purchase anything considering loudspeaker measurement gear ,read the internet first.
I wount adverstise any more for a clio pocket system which works on USB but has limited measuring capabilities , and i also read about some install problems see the link .
Asked clio to swap the clio 11 FW 01 for the much cheaper clio pocket USB system but no answer
Hello! Sorry for your frustration - totally understandable - but once you get CLIO FW up and running reliably it will change your life.
Background
I recently had the honor of becoming the N. American distributor for Audiomatica after years of using - and loving CLIO. I also own an Audio Precision APx515, Smaart, SysTune Pro, EASE, FIR Capture, Fluke meters and oscilloscopes, HP meters, Keysight (Agilent) meters, a bunch of GenRad equipment, B&K, ACO Pacific and Earthworks microphones and calibrators, LinearX design software, stroboscopes, impedance and filter boxes, Pearson current monitors and more. Much more.
The reason I mention all that is to make this point: if I were forced to give up every measurement tool I have and keep only one, it would hands-down be CLIO FW v11. It is that good and that broad in its capabilities.
FireWire Interface
I agree with you that this older, but extremely well engineered interface can be a hassle because it does limit your choices in laptops - but not that much - more on that in a moment.
As far as desktops, whether PC or Mac (running Windows in a second Boot Camp partition), FireWire is very easy and very cheap to get. When installing a card in a PC, get a card that uses the Texas Instruments chipset, they are the best but VIA and others seem to work fine too. The cards are about $30 US on Amazon. When using a Mac-mini, Mac Pro or iMac, simply purchase Apple's $30 US Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter and it works perfectly without exception.
Back to laptops. There are quite a few excellent PC and Mac laptops currently on the market that support Thunderbolt 1, 2, 3 (the latter usually combined in a USB Type C port) or that have an ExpressCard slot. ANY of those port types will support FireWire perfectly including supplying bus powering to the FW-01 audio interface. Thunderbolt 1 or 2 will require Apple's $30 US adapter, Thunderbolt 3 will require two adapters, Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 and then the Apple adapter. ExpressCard FireWire adapters are inexpensive, easy to get and totally reliable as well. There is absolutely no need to get an old laptop with a FireWire port.
Conclusion
I would love to help you get CLIO up and running. That "error 16" message is the standard message you get when you don't have the FW-01 audio interface connected to the computer, or as in your case, when it IS connected and the CLIO software can't find it.
It might be best if you contact me off-list to keep from making a mess of this thread, then we can report back with the solution when all is well. Just click on the link below to get to my website and contact info. The support area of the site might have the information you need already.
Okay, well thanks for the reaction , to keep it informative , what would be a todays on the market laptop with thunderbolt port ,looked on the net have trouble finding .
I asked clio directly and they still havent answered .
Only option i can think of is a macbook pro with thunderbolt 3 port , which then has to run on windows as you said and further connected
I asked clio directly and they still havent answered .
Only option i can think of is a macbook pro with thunderbolt 3 port , which then has to run on windows as you said and further connected
Great questions!
CLIO FW Laptops
Before I switched to Mac's in 2006 I was an IBM ThinkPad fan boy. Then they sold to Lenovo and quality initially went down (though has improved greatly since). Also the magnificently designed Apple hardware of the day (which seems to be going downhill), and the superiority of OSX at the time (which has now been beaten by Windows 10 in my opinion) has just about converted me back to the PC.
So yesterday I almost bought a state of the art Lenovo ThinkPad P50. That thing has both the ExpressCard slot and Thunderbolt 3. You can get multiple SSD and/or hard disks in it, Intel Xeon E3-1505M v5 Processor (8MB Cache, up to 3.70GHz), 64GB ECC RAM, NVIDIA Quadro M2000M graphics, on and on. AND still less money than the best MacBook Pro that isn't near as powerful. You can also get the P50 without all that fancy stuff and it'll still be more than powerful enough to host CLIO FW perfectly.
The reason I saved the cart and didn't go through with the purchase is that I'm considering Lenovo's new ThinkPad Carbon X1 instead, but it hasn't been released quite yet. Like the Macs, it'll get me to CLIO FW through a Thunderbolt 3 / Type C USB port. I tend to do my analysis and reporting on a desktop with a large screen (Mac mini), thus the sexy Mac-like X1 might be more to my taste. Still chewing on it.
Dell, HP, etc. have Type C USB/Thunderbolt 3 connectors on their newest stuff, I just always loved the silly red button on the ThinkPad keyboards for mouse control. I generally hate trackpads on anything other than a Mac, but probably wouldn't feel that way had I never been spoiled by the Mac.
CLIO FW OS
Microsoft keeps improving Windows' handling of audio, so much so with Windows 10 that it's getting close to the Mac's Core Audio API. It doesn't really matter though, because ASIO leveled the playing field years ago and Windows can do audio magnificently under the Steinberg API. CLIO's FW-01 as always operated under ASIO. So... Windows 7 and up are all great for CLIO FW, but Windows 10 is the best microcomputer OS on planet earth IMO.
Final Thought
One thing that I've enjoyed about being forced to have a separate partition on my Macs for the Windows OS is that it made it easy to justify installing a minimal set of Windows features and no other user software or drivers. This has made CLIO rock solid over the years and I very well might set up a second partition on the PC laptop I purchase for this reason. If measurement is a serious thing to you, a stripped and optimized for audio only partition is the ideal. Do all your email, diyAudio posts and defend earth from evil green aliens on another partition.
CLIO FW Laptops
Before I switched to Mac's in 2006 I was an IBM ThinkPad fan boy. Then they sold to Lenovo and quality initially went down (though has improved greatly since). Also the magnificently designed Apple hardware of the day (which seems to be going downhill), and the superiority of OSX at the time (which has now been beaten by Windows 10 in my opinion) has just about converted me back to the PC.
So yesterday I almost bought a state of the art Lenovo ThinkPad P50. That thing has both the ExpressCard slot and Thunderbolt 3. You can get multiple SSD and/or hard disks in it, Intel Xeon E3-1505M v5 Processor (8MB Cache, up to 3.70GHz), 64GB ECC RAM, NVIDIA Quadro M2000M graphics, on and on. AND still less money than the best MacBook Pro that isn't near as powerful. You can also get the P50 without all that fancy stuff and it'll still be more than powerful enough to host CLIO FW perfectly.
The reason I saved the cart and didn't go through with the purchase is that I'm considering Lenovo's new ThinkPad Carbon X1 instead, but it hasn't been released quite yet. Like the Macs, it'll get me to CLIO FW through a Thunderbolt 3 / Type C USB port. I tend to do my analysis and reporting on a desktop with a large screen (Mac mini), thus the sexy Mac-like X1 might be more to my taste. Still chewing on it.
Dell, HP, etc. have Type C USB/Thunderbolt 3 connectors on their newest stuff, I just always loved the silly red button on the ThinkPad keyboards for mouse control. I generally hate trackpads on anything other than a Mac, but probably wouldn't feel that way had I never been spoiled by the Mac.
CLIO FW OS
Microsoft keeps improving Windows' handling of audio, so much so with Windows 10 that it's getting close to the Mac's Core Audio API. It doesn't really matter though, because ASIO leveled the playing field years ago and Windows can do audio magnificently under the Steinberg API. CLIO's FW-01 as always operated under ASIO. So... Windows 7 and up are all great for CLIO FW, but Windows 10 is the best microcomputer OS on planet earth IMO.
Final Thought
One thing that I've enjoyed about being forced to have a separate partition on my Macs for the Windows OS is that it made it easy to justify installing a minimal set of Windows features and no other user software or drivers. This has made CLIO rock solid over the years and I very well might set up a second partition on the PC laptop I purchase for this reason. If measurement is a serious thing to you, a stripped and optimized for audio only partition is the ideal. Do all your email, diyAudio posts and defend earth from evil green aliens on another partition.
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With an expresscard slot you have flexibility. And the modules are cheap since expresscard is considered obsolete.
I found several of these on ebay and have devoted them to measurements Dell Latitude E6410 14" Laptop Core i7 2.8GHz 8GB RAM 320GB HDD WIFI WIN_10_PRO | eBay I got SSD's to replace the internal drives and they work great. I don't think Clio (or any other audio measurement software) will stress one of them. I have mine set for multiboot of XP and Win 10. They have firewire ports (the smaller one) and expresscard. The Lenovo looks great but you can get ten of these for what one of those costs. It seems andromedaaudio is not doing this as a full time professional so the investment must hurt a lot if its not working.
The only other fully capable audio measurement systems like Clio that are available would be AP's stuff or Listen. Both are really expensive. Its distressing to see that Clio has been unresponsive. I hope that can be remedied.
I found several of these on ebay and have devoted them to measurements Dell Latitude E6410 14" Laptop Core i7 2.8GHz 8GB RAM 320GB HDD WIFI WIN_10_PRO | eBay I got SSD's to replace the internal drives and they work great. I don't think Clio (or any other audio measurement software) will stress one of them. I have mine set for multiboot of XP and Win 10. They have firewire ports (the smaller one) and expresscard. The Lenovo looks great but you can get ten of these for what one of those costs. It seems andromedaaudio is not doing this as a full time professional so the investment must hurt a lot if its not working.
The only other fully capable audio measurement systems like Clio that are available would be AP's stuff or Listen. Both are really expensive. Its distressing to see that Clio has been unresponsive. I hope that can be remedied.
No its not my full time profession
I asked clio several times before i went internet , what laptop i had to buy , what would be the solution , neither the things you said , they gave me for an answer .
They basically said they have 4500 systems running without problems but if i read this or other threads i doubt nobody has problems
I can go buy a macbook pro and put windows on the bootcamp , but i dont want to get stuck with another errror message , i m not a computerexpert and i dont want to keep buying and switching cards or what ever , i just want to install drivers / program and measure
Seems to be the best option then , i probably will buy a clio pocket as well then, see how that works , i like a standalone unit , i dont like a pink noise cd played over a stereosystem which one then has to measure
I asked clio several times before i went internet , what laptop i had to buy , what would be the solution , neither the things you said , they gave me for an answer .
They basically said they have 4500 systems running without problems but if i read this or other threads i doubt nobody has problems
I can go buy a macbook pro and put windows on the bootcamp , but i dont want to get stuck with another errror message , i m not a computerexpert and i dont want to keep buying and switching cards or what ever , i just want to install drivers / program and measure
Seems to be the best option then , i probably will buy a clio pocket as well then, see how that works , i like a standalone unit , i dont like a pink noise cd played over a stereosystem which one then has to measure
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Went to the biggest direct sale apple store in amsterdam , huge brandstore .
Cheapest way seems to be a mac book air which has thunderbolt 2 1100 euro , adapter thunderbolt 2 fire wire 800 , adaptercable 800 to 400 to clio FW 01
They advised me against a mac book pro with thunderbolt 3 because it might not work (good ) with fire wire
Cheapest way seems to be a mac book air which has thunderbolt 2 1100 euro , adapter thunderbolt 2 fire wire 800 , adaptercable 800 to 400 to clio FW 01
They advised me against a mac book pro with thunderbolt 3 because it might not work (good ) with fire wire
CLIO FW Laptops
That's definitely the cheapest way to run CLIO FW using a new Mac, but Damian's used PC laptop solution is a great idea and definitely the least expensive way to go overall - plus you don't have to bother learning about OSX.
I'm impressed that your Apple store knew that Thunderbolt 3 might not work as well - they are correct ONLY under the assumption that you use Apple's Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter AND you install an earlier version of Windows than v10 in Boot Camp. Use the StarTech adapter as explained in the support page on my website and have a look at this Universal Audio support page.
CLIO Support
A note on CLIO support (but remember I'm biased because I work for Audiomatica); they have in fact made huge improvements. I'm part of that effort and I think it shows. I have enough content from my tech support to CLIO Pocket and FW users worldwide to fill a small book in the course of a single month. Not one of these support cases has yet to be someone I've sold CLIO to. As far as I know I haven't made one sale yet based on my input on this forum, though I probably will someday - but it doesn't matter. Anyone with a question or problem can easily contact me using the link at the bottom of my posts, for example, and ask me anything about CLIO or measurement physics and applications and I immediately jump all over it. Try me and see how long it takes to get a thoughtful reply - I dare you!
The vast majority of support I've provided ends up being a user error situation, but I always add instruction in the physics behind the situation so they truly understand not just "how" but "why" as well. I actually search for the term "CLIO" on this and other forums and read everything I find. Anyone reporting a problem they're having - even if it was years ago - I've written notes offering help and I've received some replies to these notes.
Sometimes a real bug is found - like a few days ago from a USA CLIO Pocket user. He reported it to Audiomatica in Italy. They told me about the user yesterday and I jumped on it. But Audiomatica was working on it simultaneously and figured it out before I did and sent me the data this morning. I immediately sent the user the temporary work around with a confirmation that the bug will be fixed in the soon coming v1.50 release.
Don't Read This
This is my opinion: CLIO Pocket and CLIO FW are the best measurement systems for the money for their target markets in the world with a R&D and support staff that is second to none and always improving. They make everything in house in Italy which is far more expensive than "designed in Italy, made in China", but the result is extremely high quality control in the hands of people whose livelihoods depend on satisfied customers. Audiomatica is a small company made up of some of the brightest people in the industry including PhD's in unrelated fields that came together years ago due to their passion for audio.
Here's a little history for those interested.
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Hello Langston , bought a usb super drive to install the clio program another 85 euros .
Cannot install the drivers , it says installed but when i look under device manager i see no clio driver installed .
I tried many times also down loaded from the site ?
finally installed clio but with no result
Same **** same code hard ware not found error code 16 same as with the old HP computer.
I just cannot seem to install the drivers very frustrating , they install and it says install completed, but nowhere to be found after the check
Cannot install the drivers , it says installed but when i look under device manager i see no clio driver installed .
I tried many times also down loaded from the site ?
finally installed clio but with no result
Same **** same code hard ware not found error code 16 same as with the old HP computer.
I just cannot seem to install the drivers very frustrating , they install and it says install completed, but nowhere to be found after the check
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This'll be easy - but I think we should work through it off list and report back with the solution when we find it.
My email: [COLOR="Blue"]info@audiomatica.us[/COLOR]
Looking forward to your email!
Andromedia.
I have a much earlier version of Clio, the Clio lite software and hardware and will say that if you do not follow the install directions exactly and get the results they show as you install it just won't work correctly if at all. I know with my install you had to load the software before you installed the hardware or things just weren't correct. I'm sure Langston will help you figure this all out.
I have a much earlier version of Clio, the Clio lite software and hardware and will say that if you do not follow the install directions exactly and get the results they show as you install it just won't work correctly if at all. I know with my install you had to load the software before you installed the hardware or things just weren't correct. I'm sure Langston will help you figure this all out.
I'm more hesitant than you are! I thought I knew a lot about this stuff until I attended a Syn-Aud-Con seminar years ago. Audio is fun because there's no end to how far you can go with it.
Hey thanks for the reply, i agree phase is intriguing and exciting and daunting when you get to read Heyser
I just wanted to make sure if the minimum phase is the Hilbert Transform of the Frequency respose and Excess phasee is the unwrapped phase response, I use a reverberant room for measurement so it makes it difficult for me to confirm this facts