Do you mean a 2" or 3" cone would not be as good than a dome tweeter ???? because expansion shape has to be modified as xrq971 did with his Tatricx/synergy mix à la FAST (Trynergy) ?
Why to worry for some about compression drivers if a conventional driver finally sound best for the spl needed in a home environment ?
Reading speakerscott, the selection of the mid-woofer or lower woofer in the a synergy horn would be a hassle without experience...
I plan to follow an already made design (Trynergy from xrq971) as I like both the foam no wood dust thing and the idea on a conventional driver...but I can't understand why the quality of the woofs seems to be of a less importance (BL, Qts, Vas) than an other speaker design ?! Understanding is half othe pleasure here, certainly even more for me ! Well seems less easier as the T/S needs to be putt in relation with the throats !
Why to worry for some about compression drivers if a conventional driver finally sound best for the spl needed in a home environment ?
Reading speakerscott, the selection of the mid-woofer or lower woofer in the a synergy horn would be a hassle without experience...
I plan to follow an already made design (Trynergy from xrq971) as I like both the foam no wood dust thing and the idea on a conventional driver...but I can't understand why the quality of the woofs seems to be of a less importance (BL, Qts, Vas) than an other speaker design ?! Understanding is half othe pleasure here, certainly even more for me ! Well seems less easier as the T/S needs to be putt in relation with the throats !
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In a conventional speaker the quality of the motor structure has a direct impact on the distortion performance of the speaker. In order to move a lot of air even at some upper midrange frequencies requires a good bit of excursion. If you do this with say...a two way speaker then typically their is a good bit of inter-modulation distortion added in. Both from the physical movement of the cone (changing velocity of the sound creating device) and non-linearity in the motor structure. You can fix one with cost...but not the other. (The speaker still has to move to make sound)
If you make it a three way, and follow conventional design wisdom and use a smaller midrange for dispersion and minimizing the center to center distance you still end up with a more difficult crossover, inter-modulation distortion and harmonic distortion.
In a horn loaded speaker, properly done, in the pass-band where there is an effective impedance match to the driver (so it's horn loaded, not a wave guide) the excursion is exceedingly low even at very high output levels. You eliminate the harmonic distortion due to non-linear motor structures because the speaker doesn't have to move very far.
In a Synergy design there is an additional benefit due to the fact that the air mass trapped between the cone and outside of the horn wall forms an acoustical low pass filter. So distortion formed during operation of the driver movement above this low pass filter frequency doesn't make it into the horn.
Two effective distortion reduction mechanisms...preventing it from forming and when it does happen it doesn't make it out of the horn.
Scott
A qualified guess what is going on for SH-50 is ala Duelund XO paper (pdf-file attached below) with a set value for "A" parameter in area 2,8 up till 4,0.
As seen in attached picture XO blending adds 360º phase turn but as a more strait line than more traditional types, add to this two times 180º because of system stopbands and we now at 720º phase turn sum for system. Looking SH-50 datasheet think also show this particular strait line as phase turn over hole audio band, and that HF phase past -720º drop off further is because slope is a lot steeper than second order.
As i understand to get XOs from paper perform in real world one need to precisely hit those slopes acoustic on design axis and have LF/MF/HF displacement right. To get this right one need target curves for measurement program and here a link to calculator that returns a txt-file target curve for LF MF and HF target slopes http://pro.speakerbuilder.dk/synkron/ (import to measurement program).
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I kind of agree? (And somewhat disagree.)
The crossover and the geometry have to be good. There's more wiggle room in the geometry....you can give up horn loaded for waveguide behavior etc. Give up too much, (1/4 wavelength spacing) and you won't be able to negotiate it in the crossover.
Scott
Hi Tom
Will there be any benefit of using a circular cone over square/rectangular cone as used in current Synergy horns like SH50/60 ?
I do see circular used in some single driver, coaxial driver, wider coverage pattern Danley speakers in SM80/100
(I assume circular cone can be used to get 60/50 deg coverage pattern too)
Thanks!
Will there be any benefit of using a circular cone over square/rectangular cone as used in current Synergy horns like SH50/60 ?
I do see circular used in some single driver, coaxial driver, wider coverage pattern Danley speakers in SM80/100
(I assume circular cone can be used to get 60/50 deg coverage pattern too)
Thanks!
You made a Trynergy with the 10F as well BYRTT ? Any advice on the plan printing please ?
Sorry folks, I'm off topic....
One of the most complicate problem with complex speaker enclosure is the difference between american measurement in feet and international metric : hard to translate without problem of adjustment when iit comes with angles everywhere !
About the thread :
If not for outside events but for home listening level I don't understand why a synergy design with a compression driver with stiff cone should XO around 1200 Hz better than 700 Hz to simplify with a two ways filter only for the horn ?
Despite it's point source, a 3 way could be better (filter less hearable in a horn ???) here ? Mr Danley used a normal friver at the apex of the SH-60 ?
It's not that a higher xo is better necessarily.....it depends on your design goals. A 700hz xo would need a larger format driver (NOT talking about cone hf drivers either) which isn't better or worse, just different. I thought that much had been explained already in this thread?
Thanks Natehansen66,
I had in mind a 2 ways (so less drivers also) could play with less theoric "issues". Certainly a shortcut thinking of me as I have no knowledge of the complexity of horns and speakers usually. But looking at what some like Bawslo can do in 3 ways... wow !
I don't know if some tried already such small compression 1" driver which are wideband like 2426 J (16 ohms) for instance which could allow such low XO with woofers (and without midwoof). In my mind a band-pass is ringing above its high-pass and I was basicly thinking less was best (shortcut again)...
I'm not folowed enough the thread ! Have to add, it's not easy to find a synergy horn in France to listen to and have an idea just not from the descriptions !
best regards,
I had in mind a 2 ways (so less drivers also) could play with less theoric "issues". Certainly a shortcut thinking of me as I have no knowledge of the complexity of horns and speakers usually. But looking at what some like Bawslo can do in 3 ways... wow !
I don't know if some tried already such small compression 1" driver which are wideband like 2426 J (16 ohms) for instance which could allow such low XO with woofers (and without midwoof). In my mind a band-pass is ringing above its high-pass and I was basicly thinking less was best (shortcut again)...
I'm not folowed enough the thread ! Have to add, it's not easy to find a synergy horn in France to listen to and have an idea just not from the descriptions !
best regards,
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I thought the main drawback was that the Synergy is not suitable for most home listening rooms - too big too directional and need some space to work in. If you have the space and don't need house filling dispersion then they are potentially a great idea. But for homes that have a need for more dispersion and more tolerance to boundry/room effects, there may be better approaches.
Bigun,
1) Unlike separate horn enclosures (or multiple driver front load systems) which require some distance back to integrate, a Synergy horn sounds coherent at any distance, you can literally put your head inside (larger units) and still hear an integrated response.
2) The dispersion angles desired can be designed for any room shape and size from a coat closet to an arena.
3) If you want to minimize room interaction, use large mouth sizes and narrow coverage for just the desired listening positions. If you want to hear room reflections, design for wider dispersion.
If you can think of a better approach to controlled dispersion from a single source point, please inform us of the design.
Art
But "more dispersion" is the antithesis of "tolerance to boundary/room effects."
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