Not really, I have no direct experience. Why they are not compression drivers? I have used BMS's "plastic ring radiator" comp drivers in the past but find they lack the ultimate sound quality and finesse that beryllium diaphragms provide.
double compression driver à la BMS ? 
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/218436-jbl-d2430k-compression-driver.html#post3147821
But yes if I have the money I will buy a TAD with the Beyrilium diag or the monstruous motor than a USA guy makes !
The d2430k is cheap if you live in US !
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/218436-jbl-d2430k-compression-driver.html#post3147821
But yes if I have the money I will buy a TAD with the Beyrilium diag or the monstruous motor than a USA guy makes !
The d2430k is cheap if you live in US !
double compression driver à la BMS ?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/218436-jbl-d2430k-compression-driver.html#post3147821
But yes if I have the money I will buy a TAD with the Beyrilium diag or the monstruous motor than a USA guy makes !
The d2430k is cheap if you live in US !
Yes BMS also has dual diaphragm comp driver like JBL, but I have not used it either.
neo: Overview
ferrite: Overview
I used different model with single diaphragm: Overview
More likely it's due to the better hf performance of a 1" exit driver. With the mids working just past 1khz (or higher like in bwaslo's CoSynes) a 1" compression driver has no problem. This is assuming you're using smaller mids that go down to 300hz or so. For a larger mid that gets down to 80-100hz (like weltersys' SynTrip) then you may need a larger exit driver to go down lower. Depends on the xo, your output needs, and any possible personal prejudices you may have against larger/smaller exit compression drivers
I just finished up a quickie "mini" Synergy that I put together with stuff I had laying around to evaluate the effect of the mid taps on the hf driver......new thread coming in a day or two.
I just finished up a quickie "mini" Synergy that I put together with stuff I had laying around to evaluate the effect of the mid taps on the hf driver......new thread coming in a day or two.
More likely it's due to the better hf performance of a 1" exit driver. With the mids working just past 1khz (or higher like in bwaslo's CoSynes) a 1" compression driver has no problem. This is assuming you're using smaller mids that go down to 300hz or so. For a larger mid that gets down to 80-100hz (like weltersys' SynTrip) then you may need a larger exit driver to go down lower. Depends on the xo, your output needs, and any possible personal prejudices you may have against larger/smaller exit compression drivers
I just finished up a quickie "mini" Synergy that I put together with stuff I had laying around to evaluate the effect of the mid taps on the hf driver......new thread coming in a day or two.
*ding*
It also has to do with the cutoff frequency of where you end up tapping the mids into the horn.
I believe selection of a dual-radiator compression driver such as the BMS units (used in the HO versions) has more to do total output. One of the Danley university videos explains in great detail that one of the limits on a conventional style Synergy horn is the single tweeter. You can build them very easily with high excursion, high power handling midrange/woofer arrays ....but then you're still limited by the single tweeter at the apex.
Hence the Paraline and combiner technologies used in the Jericho and Exodus products.
For home use...and I can't stress this strongly enough...there is no need to go to expensive esoteric compression driver, midranges, and woofers in an apparent effort to move crossover frequencies, get higher output, lower distortion...etc until you've made several prototypes and understand the relationships of flare rate, cutoff frequency, transition to waveguide operations, phase between drivers etc... . Using more expensive drivers in an effort to get better performance or change a fundamental operating principle is....self defeating at best. Likely you'll just waste a bunch of money that you could have used to music. Or a nice dinner. Or both.
The retail cost of the drivers for one of my "big" Synergy horns is ~$215. A bargain.
Would I trade them for some super high end Wilson or Focal speakers? High 5 figure, low 6 figure style? Sure.
Then I'd immediately flip the audiophile speakers for as much as they are "wurf" and build myself another set of DIY Synergy horns. It's that simple.
-Scott
Yes - A lot can be done for a little money, if you have the knowledge.
I once helped someone (via email) build a crossover for a Selenium 1" driver on an Altec 811 horn. A combo I was certain would sound like poop. When I finally got to hear it, I was amazed. Never thought it would sound so trouble free. Mostly to his credit, I didn't do much. Application counts for a lot. A whole lot.
I once helped someone (via email) build a crossover for a Selenium 1" driver on an Altec 811 horn. A combo I was certain would sound like poop. When I finally got to hear it, I was amazed. Never thought it would sound so trouble free. Mostly to his credit, I didn't do much. Application counts for a lot. A whole lot.
I totally agree with SpeakerScott on not needing high end drivers to get high end sound with synergies. First of all, Dayton drivers are in general, excellent performers and high value leaders as well as PRV. I have the PRV D280Ti and think it sounds fantastic and it only cost $40. With a horn loaded Synergy, the drivers don't have to work very hard to reachhigh SPL so they don't move much. This also means they have deep reserves for hitting a dynamic peak without sounding g strained. When drivers are working near zero displacement they tend to be low distortion. For home use, you would never want more than 8 watts into these drivers or you will go deaf.
For bare faced drivers in a conventional box, higher quality can make a difference as you are asking it to work well into its xmax zone and breakups, polar directivity, etc are important. For the woofers, there might be more to try to get a driver with more xmax and lower distortion as it is working less like a horn and more like a bandpass woofer. But from examples of $1 mids working here it is not surprising to see that high end mid drivers are not needed.
For bare faced drivers in a conventional box, higher quality can make a difference as you are asking it to work well into its xmax zone and breakups, polar directivity, etc are important. For the woofers, there might be more to try to get a driver with more xmax and lower distortion as it is working less like a horn and more like a bandpass woofer. But from examples of $1 mids working here it is not surprising to see that high end mid drivers are not needed.
Nate,More likely it's due to the better hf performance of a 1" exit driver. With the mids working just past 1khz (or higher like in bwaslo's CoSynes) a 1" compression driver has no problem. This is assuming you're using smaller mids that go down to 300hz or so. For a larger mid that gets down to 80-100hz (like weltersys' SynTrip) then you may need a larger exit driver to go down lower. Depends on the xo, your output needs, and any possible personal prejudices you may have against larger/smaller exit compression drivers
Compression drivers with extended high frequency range are all limited to a bit less than 1 millimeter excursion before the diaphragm hits the phase plug, to achieve more SPL output diaphragm area (Sd) must be increased. It is therefore more important to identify Sd than exit size.
1" exit drivers can have as little as .7 square inch Sd, while a 3" diaphragm 1.4" exit (as used in the SynTripP) has around 7 square inch Sd, around 9 dB more output potential, or 3 dB more output potential than a typical 1.75" diaphragm 1" exit.
Some 2" exit drivers have only 1.75" diaphragms, though 3" or 4" are more typical.
Art
Yeah I've heard quite a few of them now:
1) I've listened to the SH50 in my own room
2) I hauled the SH50 over to a members home in the San Diego area, and we pitted them against his Lambda Unity Horns
3) I've heard Bill Waslo's
4) I've heard the Sound Physics Labs SPL TD-1s at the "USC" raves in Seattle (one of my friends used to own these)
5) I've heard the SPL TD-1s at Club Ra in Vegas
6) I've heard one of the Lambda Unities that was on the old Lambda site.
7) Pure Groove Systems is going to run their Jericho horns for a New Years Eve party in Los Angeles and I'll be there
Agreed.
I'm mostly using domes now. I don't need the additional output that I can get from a compression driver, and I've found that dome tweeters frequently have better harmonic distortion performance in the octave from 1500hz to 3000hz due to their higher excursion.
I could go with a larger compression driver, like a DE250, but I find that the octave from 10,000hz to 20,000hz sounds kinda 'grungey' due to the poor CSD
I guess it boils down to this:
1) tiny compression drivers, like the 4540ND and CDX1-1425, can get to 20khz cleanly, but their distortion performance from 1500 to 3000hz is iffy
2) large compression drivers, like the DE250, can't get to 20khz cleanly, but they get to 1000hz well
3) dome tweeters like the SB19 don't have the output of a compression driver, but they can play to 1500hz well *and* they reach 20khz
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Thanks for the photos, Patrick. I have not heard the Synergy in a room that small, although I tried to get a pair for Hi-Fi testing while I was still on the East Coast.
Also not been able to hear the Syngery next to a Gedlee product. I don't think it would be a fair fight, but they are meant for different things and spaces.
Thanks!
Oddly enough, the two speakers couldn't sound more different. Danley has frequently mentioned that the crossover in the Synergies evolved quite a bit after he made the Unities, and I am inclined to agree. To me, the Synergy Horns sounded closer to my Vandersteens than to the Summas. The Lambda Unity horns sound quite similar to the Summas I think.
I guess what I'm saying is don't focus on the geometry of the Synergy horn; focus on the crossover. I have a hunch that you could use the same driver arrangement as an SH-50, and it wouldn't sound the same unless you got the xover right. And I also believe that you could probably get a lot of the same performance out of a humble coaxial if you understood what's going on in the crossover.
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Roger that Art I was being pretty general in my response.
I just whipped up a Synergy horn with a BMS 4524 (1" vc no idea on the sd) and 3 Celestion TF0410mr on an 18" wg. Crossing around 1.2khz is pushing it for these little cds but things actually sound quite good.....even at high spl. The mid ports have much less effect on the hf response (this is an elliptical wg I'm using) than I expected and I measured out to 60°. I've been hanging out in the basement all afternoon listening to this thing. Now I'm eyeballing the waveguides in my main system.......
For sure, for sure. The crossover can make or break a speaker. I know that Tom did some very good work on the Synergy crossover. He has talked a bit about it, and you can hear it in the product.
Would this not be where a D2430k(preferably the D2415k due to its smaller exit, but I have not seen any measurements) would be advantageous, lower distortion?
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