Denon AKDL1 Ethernet interconnect. $499. And that was 8 years ago.
Audiophiles are aleady arguing just as furiously over the audible differences between Ethernet cables as they did over S/PDIF and USB. And where there's argument, there will be snake oil.
Magical Grounding Boxes
I just saw some photos of those magical grounding boxes. It appears that the magic does not include either craftsmanship or quality pieces & parts.
Entreq Tellus grounding - Page 169
I just saw some photos of those magical grounding boxes. It appears that the magic does not include either craftsmanship or quality pieces & parts.
Entreq Tellus grounding - Page 169
Cheers I'll look at BBC i player.
Yes I believe Calrec are still going as are AMS and I believe one more. my colleague at work used to do the console layout for AMS, they had fun back then getting PCBs made at the size they required.
We also have Music Group research down in Salford an ex colleague from my days at Cobham s now their main PCB man.
There used to so much industry round this area (I have worked here or commuted over the hills from Yorkshire most of my life) Phillips had a huge place, Marconi etc. all gone or just remnants of what they were. Seems to be a migration to sunnier southern clime, cant understand why, who wants sunshine when you can have big hills and grey skys😀
Cables or the never ending story.
It´s remain a big business.
I can say that today 90% high-speed solded USB high-speed cable (logo informs) are not USB compliant (length independently)!
The story has started for 15 years with the development of a new generation of airborne computer. My company specifies a computer with USB 2.0 interfaces (at that time USB 2.0 started). After the long development and qualification the customer gives finally the go for the helicopter integration and the problems grows. After 2 additional years the problem was solved.
Fact: we use a custom manufactured and qualified cable and if problems occurs, we use custom developped and qualified hubs (meanly if length > 2m). Another point to address is that you don´t need to use the dedicated USB supply, go self powered to avoid problems.
Amphenol has developped a very good bus-powered cable bound one port USB hub. I had the chance to test them on a Airbus Helicopters COUGAR helicopter: very bad eye diagram on the upstream very nice eye diagram on the downstream, high-speed USB 2.0 fully compliant, test passed.
My 2 cent, Jean-Paul
It´s remain a big business.
I can say that today 90% high-speed solded USB high-speed cable (logo informs) are not USB compliant (length independently)!
The story has started for 15 years with the development of a new generation of airborne computer. My company specifies a computer with USB 2.0 interfaces (at that time USB 2.0 started). After the long development and qualification the customer gives finally the go for the helicopter integration and the problems grows. After 2 additional years the problem was solved.
Fact: we use a custom manufactured and qualified cable and if problems occurs, we use custom developped and qualified hubs (meanly if length > 2m). Another point to address is that you don´t need to use the dedicated USB supply, go self powered to avoid problems.
Amphenol has developped a very good bus-powered cable bound one port USB hub. I had the chance to test them on a Airbus Helicopters COUGAR helicopter: very bad eye diagram on the upstream very nice eye diagram on the downstream, high-speed USB 2.0 fully compliant, test passed.
My 2 cent, Jean-Paul
When people go on about how a digital cable improves there sound, I ask them if it also improves there pictures, video and word documents. When there blank stare ends , I ask why not? If they answer with any timing problems I ask why the video is still the same. Probably dosnt change their minds but it usually shuts them up.
Snake-oil is /was alive and well.
As for noise on USB cables, my Teac UD501 DSD capable DAC (at my office), failed to lock on properly on DSD 5.6 material using cheap USB cables, it needed a ferrite-choked insulated cable (£10 for 1.2m) to lock properly!
OK it did not break the bank, and quite feasible, but compared to that, I have DSD material on my home server (at home) which is virtual-networked to my office computer (through internet) and I can play DSD 5.6 material from my home-server, through internet into my office computer, using Jriver player, into the same DAC without a glitch.
We are talking miles ! , cheap routers, internet and it still plays (provided the better USB cable is used)!
USB is good and fine, I only meant it is running out of time, network audio will replace it in future.
Stadiums, larger organizations, Train stations, supermarkets . . . have been using networked music for quite sometime.
The technology not only exists but it is quite mature and cheap.
Cheap CAT 5 is fine for few tens of meters, otherwise CAT 7 is good for 200m or so.
I buy 330 m of CAT 5 for £40 ! trade.
Cheap as chips.
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Cat 5, 5e, 6 and 6a all have a 100 meter range ( to pass testing). They will all deliver full bandwidth up to that length.
Technically you are correct.
But it presumes top notch hubs.
With average (i.e. cheap) hubs, in practice it is usually half of that.
Still the point is networking and cables are very cheap per meter.
USB without a repeater can not go beyond a few meters.
You have me lost. You have USB as the last leg in both cases. How is that networked music? Sonos is networked music what you have described is not.
OK to put it simply.
- USB and network (Ethernet, internet, wifi . . .) are all data delivery conduits.
- USB only works locally, in short distances.
- For audio use , specially higher rates of audio sampling (i.e. DSD or 192kHz) the quality of the cable and the USB-receiver come into question, even for such short lengths.
- Network does not suffer such limitations, even the cheapest of cables at tens of meters with cheap hubs/routers have enough bandwidth to deal with highest sample rates of audio.
- My computer at work, with it's player and external DAC form a network player, it can be replaced with a stand-alone network player. Sonos is not the only type network player.
- Point is the data is read from the disc at home, gets modulated, is sent through the internet, is received at my office router, transmitted to my office PC, all without a glitch! now if I don't use a quality USB cable, I'll have problems.
- Most manufacturers are going for network players, and have plans to abandon USB, PS Audio and Leema Acoustics to name two .
That's not simply. It's confusing the issues again.
Lets start with the an assumption that there is a lot of non-compliant USB cables out there and very few non-compliant cat5 cables. If this assumption is correct, and your experience suggests it is then USB performs to the required level with a compliant cable.
Now you are mixing use cases
Use case 1: PC on desk, user at PC wants to listen to music. For this USB is a very good solution
Use case 2: Ishiny in hand, music on server/cloud and user wants to dance around the house with the music following them. USB is still a good solution for the last foot. RPi and I2S DAC is also a good solution. I currently don't see a point of it as I want control points in each room. But I accept that is my own requirements not yours.
USB is 20 years old and will be here another 20 years.
I looked at PS Audios website. Seems they are backing ALL horses in this race.
Lets start with the an assumption that there is a lot of non-compliant USB cables out there and very few non-compliant cat5 cables. If this assumption is correct, and your experience suggests it is then USB performs to the required level with a compliant cable.
Now you are mixing use cases
Use case 1: PC on desk, user at PC wants to listen to music. For this USB is a very good solution
Use case 2: Ishiny in hand, music on server/cloud and user wants to dance around the house with the music following them. USB is still a good solution for the last foot. RPi and I2S DAC is also a good solution. I currently don't see a point of it as I want control points in each room. But I accept that is my own requirements not yours.
USB is 20 years old and will be here another 20 years.
I looked at PS Audios website. Seems they are backing ALL horses in this race.
I am sorry for your confusion.
I can not explain it any better.
Thank you for the discussion, never the less.
Yours
Ken
let me put it another way. When I am at work and want to listen to music What other than USB is any use to me if I want better sound that my laptop's onboard audio?
(hint the answer is nothing)
(hint the answer is nothing)
Digital output from laptop? Mine has an optical one.
Also Wireless is a thing. No cables!
They'll come out with Air-Conditioners so the photons are aligned while traveling through the air in the room, and they shed the noise. Or the Conditioner will filter the bad/noisy photons 🙂
So many ideas!
Also Wireless is a thing. No cables!
They'll come out with Air-Conditioners so the photons are aligned while traveling through the air in the room, and they shed the noise. Or the Conditioner will filter the bad/noisy photons 🙂
So many ideas!
iFi iPurifier 2 Inline USB Audio Conditioner at Music Direct
Noise cancelling from military radar.....
How come restricted designs can be used for audio products.....
Yet another over glorified USB hub.....
Noise cancelling from military radar.....
How come restricted designs can be used for audio products.....
Yet another over glorified USB hub.....
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