At the same dB out, I would say so. Assuming you'll achieve higher SPL w/the Keystones, it's hard for me to say certainly one way or the other. For instance, if a TH has 5dB less at the rear over a BR, but is over 5dB louder overall, the TH will therefore be louder at the rear overall. So, like with a lot of things - it depends.
On another note: if you're playing on turntables and you experience turntable rumble/feedback, raise your high pass filter on your subs to 40Hz. Works every time.
On another note: if you're playing on turntables and you experience turntable rumble/feedback, raise your high pass filter on your subs to 40Hz. Works every time.
Less, yes. Even a 3db difference is considered significant when talking about directivity. I don't know exactly how much you'd drop levels at the DJ table using TH,
but I wouldn't make the claim that it would 'fix' any problem a DJ has with too much bass.
The reality is unless you move the subs away from the DJ or vice versa, there are not a whole lot of options to prevent the bass from hitting the DJ hard if he/she is close to the stack and you are running it hard. One is to increase the boundary area of the subs. Art has a very nice thread linked in the OP of this thread about making horn mouth extensions that boost the directivity even further. That could make a significant difference. If you're running keystones, it's probably a good start.
The second option is to use additional subs and additional DSP channels to do beam shaping. If you read through the rest of that Void Bass Array guide, you'll see some of what I mean. A lot of big concerts and EDM shows especially have 2 rows of subs spaced a quarter wavelength of some frequency (often 50-65hz or so) apart. The rear subs fire first and the front delayed by the time that relates to a quarter wavelength of that frequency. Thus the waves sum perfectly in front and gives significant but imperfect cancellation to the rear. For a lot of people the extra equipment and space required isn't an option, but I figured it's worth explaining. That's how you do strong bass rejection.
Another twist on that is you can reverse the scheme for stronger rejection at the cost of reduced SPL and quality in the audience. Fire the front first and then fire the second a quarter wave delayed in reverse phase. Fantastic cancellation but reduced forward quality.
The third option that really only makes sense at shows with a significant sub array is to place some subs right next to the DJ and delay them out of phase to produce as much cancellation as possible. They won't be loud enough to affect the audience but the near field cancellation will be significant.
Read more here.
How To......Cardioid Sub Arrays - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
One last note. Unless you're really clever with DSP (it can be done), you need to use the same sub boxes everywhere if you're considering beam shaping because mixing frequency and group delay responses can make a mess.
http://forum.speakerplans.com/how-tocardioid-sub-arrays_topic26007.html
but I wouldn't make the claim that it would 'fix' any problem a DJ has with too much bass.
The reality is unless you move the subs away from the DJ or vice versa, there are not a whole lot of options to prevent the bass from hitting the DJ hard if he/she is close to the stack and you are running it hard. One is to increase the boundary area of the subs. Art has a very nice thread linked in the OP of this thread about making horn mouth extensions that boost the directivity even further. That could make a significant difference. If you're running keystones, it's probably a good start.
The second option is to use additional subs and additional DSP channels to do beam shaping. If you read through the rest of that Void Bass Array guide, you'll see some of what I mean. A lot of big concerts and EDM shows especially have 2 rows of subs spaced a quarter wavelength of some frequency (often 50-65hz or so) apart. The rear subs fire first and the front delayed by the time that relates to a quarter wavelength of that frequency. Thus the waves sum perfectly in front and gives significant but imperfect cancellation to the rear. For a lot of people the extra equipment and space required isn't an option, but I figured it's worth explaining. That's how you do strong bass rejection.
Another twist on that is you can reverse the scheme for stronger rejection at the cost of reduced SPL and quality in the audience. Fire the front first and then fire the second a quarter wave delayed in reverse phase. Fantastic cancellation but reduced forward quality.
The third option that really only makes sense at shows with a significant sub array is to place some subs right next to the DJ and delay them out of phase to produce as much cancellation as possible. They won't be loud enough to affect the audience but the near field cancellation will be significant.
Read more here.
How To......Cardioid Sub Arrays - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
One last note. Unless you're really clever with DSP (it can be done), you need to use the same sub boxes everywhere if you're considering beam shaping because mixing frequency and group delay responses can make a mess.
http://forum.speakerplans.com/how-tocardioid-sub-arrays_topic26007.html
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Very interesting. Would it be possible to achieve even wider horizontal dispersion if a delay is applied to the outer pair of speakers in the inverted arc displayed in picture 21 and 22?
Would be a nice to achieve even coverage with tops located each side of the stack.
Hi zettairyouiki,
That only counts for bassreflex the way you describe it. You can’t use TH's or basshorns so easily in a cardioid stack because you have to compensate for the point source that is far behind (pathlength) the TH enclosure.
Cheers,
Djim
Djim,
There are lots of people using FLH and TH in both cardioid and end fire arrays:
https://soundforums.net/threads/9787-Stair-Cardioid-Subwoofer-Array
Compensating for the additional path length of a horn is no different (or difficult) than with bass reflex, you are just adding that delay to the top cabinets, while the sub math remains the same.
Cheers,
Art
Finally getting two keystones built using 18TBW100-4 speakers in each one. I am still somewhat hazy on properly powering these speakers since the initial threads speak of how these speakers are able to handle more power. I currently only have a Behringer EP4000 as an extra amp, and am not sure if this amp can push these speakers well enough, I am guessing not. I cannot yet justify buying a new $3000 amp, so am checking to see other options that would pair up well with these speakers. Even if the amp is used or something I can use for the subs until I could upgrade and then use that amp to power new mid/highs in a bi-amp setup. Thanks
You could either get another EP4000, or an EP2500, since they're the same unit with a different badge. Bridged into 4ohm, that'll make quite a noise.
Alternatively, an NU6000 will put out 2kW/ch peaks into 4ohm for normal music conditions (kick drum just about clipping), but won't hold continuous sine waves without popping the breaker.
AVSForums (IIRC) have a bunch of bench tests on the EP line of amps, and the EP2k5 came out rather well. I'd probably take an NU6000DSP since that's a bit less work for your processor, and they weigh ridiculously little.
Chris
Alternatively, an NU6000 will put out 2kW/ch peaks into 4ohm for normal music conditions (kick drum just about clipping), but won't hold continuous sine waves without popping the breaker.
AVSForums (IIRC) have a bunch of bench tests on the EP line of amps, and the EP2k5 came out rather well. I'd probably take an NU6000DSP since that's a bit less work for your processor, and they weigh ridiculously little.
Chris
I use the NU4-6000 with a pair of the channels bridged for the sub, the other two channels run mid/high, allowing me to put each amp directly by the speakers, cutting cable length.
If you only need sub power, the two channel 6000 would give you the same power for slightly less money.
Art
Please have a look at this.
The difference between an Inuke and a Powersoft - Speakerplans.com Forums
The difference between an Inuke and a Powersoft - Speakerplans.com Forums
LOL While I cant afford PS amplifiers. I do like them. I would start off with QSC/Crown first though. I am not a fan of Berry stuff but thats only my opinion. If I was doing music for a living I would have a bunch of PS amps. Less rack space and I like the features they carry.
BUT for now I will just stick with the used market Crest/Crown/QSC amps for my own fun.
BUT for now I will just stick with the used market Crest/Crown/QSC amps for my own fun.
"Best" would depend on your usage, if you want to have the cabinet pushed up flush to a wall, the connectors can't be on that side.
I mounted the connectors on the back of the cabinet between braces J & K, the wire runs up part H, over G, and along M, stapled and caulked in place.
Art
Attachments
View attachment 500855
Almost ready. One is going to get strapped to the roof
How did they do?
-Kelly
Made a bunch of sawdust today. Got all the panels cut , the baffles done, and all the braces cut to proper width, but waiting till assembly to cut their final lengths and angles for tight fit. Speakers will be here tomorrow. I am debating between screws and crown staples for panel assembly. I have always used screws, but see a lot of cabinets are put together with crown staples in lieu of screws. i suppose the screws would draw the panels tighter. Thoughts on that?
Attachments
They did really well. We ran the 2 KS up front with the JBL mains on top and then a second delay about 30' back with 2 EV 18's and some MSR tops.
Honestly, considering that the EV's were half the size, half the weight, and had about half the RMS power in their built in amps, they were very impressive. I was hoping the KS would have tromped them a bit more. Sonically, the every DJ complimented just how great everything sounded. The end of the week we had a small party where only the KS and JBLs were playing so everyone really had a chance to hear the KS. The DJ's all praised the clarity. Output wise, I think they paid $600 each for the B stock EV subs. Each KS was around $500 without an amp (we used a 2500 watt amp on each KS). Once you factor in your time, the DIY approach really better be something you enjoy, because logistically those EVs impressed me. However it was Burning Man and the fact that the KS were hand built and brandless left everyone really happy. The veteran DJs all agreed the dance floor never sounded so good, and it was the first year we had to interrupt the parties on 3 different days to have people move their bikes from blocking the road it drew in so many Burners.