Osse,
The iNuke 6000 is 3100 watts at 4 ohms. The four ohm speaker would see 3 dB dB more level than a pair of 8 ohm drivers (each 8 ohm driver would get 1550, not 900 watts peak), so would have the same output as the pair, less perhaps 1/2 to 2 dB due to power compression, depending on the dynamics of the program material.
The pair of 8 ohm speakers sharing the power would be "safer" than a single four ohm driver getting twice the power. That said, with proper average limiting, 3100 peak watts should be no problem for the B&C 18TBW100-4 (or 8).
Art
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The iNuke was measured to 1800 watt continuous(I think) in the 33% duty cycle test, behringer claim 3100 watts which should be peak power afaik.
I didn't write 900 watts PEAK, but each.
would 1550w peak be enought for techno music with a crest factor of around 4.5-5.5? I looked at two typical songs I'm playing with the voxengo SPAN plugin and when resetting the crest factor and letting it play for about half a minute during the bassline that was where it landed. Is peak power capability as important in low crest factor music as with "live" music? I guess LF peaks won't be as substantial when the lows are squashed in EDM for example.
What makes me think it could work with one iNuke 6000 with four TBW100-8 is that AFAIK the lower the crest factor, the more important to distribute the high RMS energy over more VC's.
Zwiller claimed in #387 that the 18sw115 would reach xmax at 1000 watts(the tbw likely less than that) which made me think this approach might be viable and desireable with low crest factor music?
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1) With the power compression likely with that low a crest factor, another 3 dB of peak power won't make much difference.
2) No, about 9 to 20 dB less important.
3) Yes.
4) The B&C 18SW115 requires 82vto reach Xmax, at most frequencies several times more power is required to hit Xmax. The B&C TBW100-4 requires a bit less (64v) to hit it's lesser Xmax.
Art
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that is quite a substantial difference between the tbw and sw115, 5 dB at 90 hz, around 3 dB at 40 and a few hz lower f3, looks like a pair of 115-4 driven by the iNuke could put out sufficient spl to not stand shy compared to four tbw100-8 driven by one iNuke aswell, also due to increased peak output. especially if coupled with your waveguides from the other thread one might experience close to equal performance
wouldn't the processor unit need two limiters, one for peak and one for rms to benifit from the increased peak spl capabilities?
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1)Perhaps you are looking at the graph thinking those are 10 dB between the lines, the difference is only about half what you suggest, and the 18SW115 requires quite a bit more power than the 18TBW100 to get to that level, as the 18TBW100 ha a higher sensitivity.
2) Yes, though for EDM I'd be more concerned with RMS than peak.
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2500 watt peak I guess?
tbw-4 or 8?
was this in a keystone cab? how was the low frequency control and extension for nasty EDM?
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Out of curiosity what did you try it out with? This is one of the best tracks I know of for abuse of constant basslines.
https://soundcloud.com/allthingstrap/baauer-rasberry
or if you have the luxury of extended testing without making enemies of the neighbors
https://soundcloud.com/highmaintenancednb/high-maintenance-guest-mix
https://soundcloud.com/allthingstrap/baauer-rasberry
or if you have the luxury of extended testing without making enemies of the neighbors
https://soundcloud.com/highmaintenancednb/high-maintenance-guest-mix
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Yes you're right, I read 10 dB steps between the lines. The extended LF response is looking really nice on the sw115 tho, and if the iNuke can drive it to it's thermal long-term limit in the KS I could see the ~150$ difference between them justified
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XE4igl2q8s
This is the kind of torment I'm subjecting both my speakers and ears to
2500 watt peak I guess?
tbw-4 or 8?
was this in a keystone cab? how was the low frequency control and extension for nasty EDM?
mackie fr2500 - 2500watt rms amp
30hz HP
Keystone
lfe left nothing to be desired sonically,but more output is always welcomed. The driver seems like it could do a lot more if I could get it even power.
I will do a more scientific spl test with the above amp and measure it's actually voltage when my mic arrives tomorrow.
love people who share real music they test with
I will throw these tracks on and give you some feedback after this weekend!
RL Grime, Flume and some Odesza tracks I played sounded phenomenal as far as the and the driver just danced from note to note with ease. I should right marketing bs huh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XE4igl2q8s
This is the kind of torment I'm subjecting both my speakers and ears to
lol at DMT Records
can I brand them "The Spirit Frequency"
Hello
I plan to build a pair of kestones with four JBL 2225h (one pair per sub).
JBL 2225h have a quite "low" height: 12.5cm (5"), so it would be possible to use 2 drivers in opposition (face to face), push pull configuration in a keystone.
I'm very curious about the effect of push pull configuration.
The only modification needed would be adding thickness to the front plate (the one with speaker cutting): with a 4cm thick front plate, the magnet of the "inside throat driver" would get in it.
I hope you guys understand what I mean and that my idea is interesting
I know that 2225h is not a LF driver but I have two pairs and the push pull configuation may add some LF extension...curious about that
Could someone help me with hornresp simulation?
What would be the enclosure width with a 15" driver?
Regards
I plan to build a pair of kestones with four JBL 2225h (one pair per sub).
JBL 2225h have a quite "low" height: 12.5cm (5"), so it would be possible to use 2 drivers in opposition (face to face), push pull configuration in a keystone.
I'm very curious about the effect of push pull configuration.
The only modification needed would be adding thickness to the front plate (the one with speaker cutting): with a 4cm thick front plate, the magnet of the "inside throat driver" would get in it.
I hope you guys understand what I mean and that my idea is interesting
I know that 2225h is not a LF driver but I have two pairs and the push pull configuation may add some LF extension...curious about that
Could someone help me with hornresp simulation?
What would be the enclosure width with a 15" driver?
Regards
What you're describing when you say "face to face" sounds like isobaric loading. It won't make the cabinet any louder and it won't get you more LF extension, but it might make the drivers play more nicely in a TH. I'm not entirely sure. You'll have to run a sim in hornresp on it.
The 5mm x-max won't change and that will very seriously limit your SPL. Depending on how well the drivers behave in the TH it might be good to mount two drivers per box in a normal fashion to make up for the weak xmax.
The 5mm x-max won't change and that will very seriously limit your SPL. Depending on how well the drivers behave in the TH it might be good to mount two drivers per box in a normal fashion to make up for the weak xmax.
JBL 2225H xmax seems to be 7.11mm: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/thiele small parameters/theile parameters.pdf
I've tried comparing one driver configuration and 2 drivers (isobarik) configuration:
One driver fr:
One driver spl max (with only 250w and 5mm xmax):
2 drivers isobarik fr:
2 drivers isobarik spl max (with only 250w and 5mm xmax):
Interesting to see Isobarik effect with midbass drivers
I've tried comparing one driver configuration and 2 drivers (isobarik) configuration:
One driver fr:
One driver spl max (with only 250w and 5mm xmax):
2 drivers isobarik fr:
2 drivers isobarik spl max (with only 250w and 5mm xmax):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Interesting to see Isobarik effect with midbass drivers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XE4igl2q8s
This is the kind of torment I'm subjecting both my speakers and ears to
Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnQY3swM4tA
You get a minute at a time of approximately 35Hz low-passed square wave. Crest factors worse than sustained sine waves IIRC.
For high power use, you'd better make sure its at an excursion maximum or the subs are gonna cook with no air movement through the magnet structure.
As a thought, would the mains wiring in a typical venue provide some RMS limiting anyway?
IMO, those JBLs would probably be better sold for something more suitable, if they're only going to live in subwoofers. I'd expect one 18SW115 would easily outperform two JBL-loaded cabinets, isobaric or not.
Chris