Break in is REAL, different for different drivers. The ear is a very sensitive instrument, unfortunately it's connected to the brain! lol
Byrtt, drivers I've listened to in the recent past. SB acoustics 4", Peerless TC8, TC9, CHR 70.3, Peerless TC7, ff85wk. Of these the stand outs are 85wk(wide and smooth) TC8(more bass high Q) CHR 70.3(good all around). I liked the TC8 better than the TC9, the TC9 sounded better after I treated it with laxative! LOL
Hope this helps.
Larry
Byrtt, drivers I've listened to in the recent past. SB acoustics 4", Peerless TC8, TC9, CHR 70.3, Peerless TC7, ff85wk. Of these the stand outs are 85wk(wide and smooth) TC8(more bass high Q) CHR 70.3(good all around). I liked the TC8 better than the TC9, the TC9 sounded better after I treated it with laxative! LOL
Hope this helps.
Larry
Larryspkr,
Thanks feedback and 😀's too, have best fun and diyFEST 2015 if participation there is planned.
Thanks feedback and 😀's too, have best fun and diyFEST 2015 if participation there is planned.
Decided to order the SB65WBAC25-4 after this listening test. It was my top pick (H), the measurements and specs are good and I have great experience with SBacoustics drivers in the past.
It arrived and I am very impressed!!
Tiny little thing, but it is definitely fullrange.
It is actually quite dynamic and has a delicate detailed treble like a dome tweeter. Even though this is just first impressions, but I think I like it better than the fe83en and ff105wk that I currently have (still waiting for EuropeAudio to ship my 10f/8424 grrr).
The SB65 really has a beautiful clarity and purity to them, but also have a surprising dynamic punch in the midbass. Almost sounds like a 3" or 4" driver but with a dome tweeter like clarity.
And mine actually measures even flatter than the one XRK shows here!
I made measurements here at 90db at 0.5m, which I think is higher than XRK's tests. At this level the drivers are quite loud. I am not sure how to measure the voltage (AC across the speaker terminals?). Maybe the voltage ranged from 1.3-1.8volts during the sweep. My measurements are fullrange and yes I did put 30hz into that little driver (poor thing), but the xmax on this thing is amazing (5.3mm p-p) for such a tiny driver.
compared to XRK's measurement (with the 350hz XO to RS225)which I believe are at a lower output level than my measurements
here is a measurement at 12cm when it first arrived, and fitting it to a target curve with a bass rolloff of 12db/oct at 145hz.
This is super flat with most of these bumps at 2-3db (no eq of course, just the raw driver in a sealed box)
Unfortunately the local distributor only had 1 left, but when they get more, I am very tempted to pick up more (maybe do a small line array). But I should probably wait till the 10f arrive before I get too caught up in yet another driver purchase.
It arrived and I am very impressed!!
Tiny little thing, but it is definitely fullrange.
It is actually quite dynamic and has a delicate detailed treble like a dome tweeter. Even though this is just first impressions, but I think I like it better than the fe83en and ff105wk that I currently have (still waiting for EuropeAudio to ship my 10f/8424 grrr).
The SB65 really has a beautiful clarity and purity to them, but also have a surprising dynamic punch in the midbass. Almost sounds like a 3" or 4" driver but with a dome tweeter like clarity.
And mine actually measures even flatter than the one XRK shows here!
I made measurements here at 90db at 0.5m, which I think is higher than XRK's tests. At this level the drivers are quite loud. I am not sure how to measure the voltage (AC across the speaker terminals?). Maybe the voltage ranged from 1.3-1.8volts during the sweep. My measurements are fullrange and yes I did put 30hz into that little driver (poor thing), but the xmax on this thing is amazing (5.3mm p-p) for such a tiny driver.
compared to XRK's measurement (with the 350hz XO to RS225)which I believe are at a lower output level than my measurements
here is a measurement at 12cm when it first arrived, and fitting it to a target curve with a bass rolloff of 12db/oct at 145hz.
This is super flat with most of these bumps at 2-3db (no eq of course, just the raw driver in a sealed box)
Unfortunately the local distributor only had 1 left, but when they get more, I am very tempted to pick up more (maybe do a small line array). But I should probably wait till the 10f arrive before I get too caught up in yet another driver purchase.
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Nice Jeshi. Your sample really does measure flatter than mine. It seems you don't have the small bump that I have at 10kHz. They do sound really nice and I am looking for the next speaker to put them into. Your sealed EVA foam seams to be doing the trick with this one. You described it the same way I did: sounds like a mid range with a built in dome tweeter.
Can you plot yours with the IR window set to 0.5ms before and 4ms after zero time? Then plot it at 1/48th octave smoothing using same scale as mine. We both measured at 0.5m so it should be similar - although you have some rounded edges on your foam box which is also a trapezoid.
Now that we have shown that this driver has some followers maybe it can breathe life into my thread that went no-where when I first describe these guys as potential drivers for full range projects:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/273211-sb-acoustics-sb65wbac25-4-what-do.html
I think it would make a neat little DCR running full range to squeeze some bass out of the little guy.
Can you plot yours with the IR window set to 0.5ms before and 4ms after zero time? Then plot it at 1/48th octave smoothing using same scale as mine. We both measured at 0.5m so it should be similar - although you have some rounded edges on your foam box which is also a trapezoid.
Now that we have shown that this driver has some followers maybe it can breathe life into my thread that went no-where when I first describe these guys as potential drivers for full range projects:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/273211-sb-acoustics-sb65wbac25-4-what-do.html
I think it would make a neat little DCR running full range to squeeze some bass out of the little guy.
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Xrk, yeah I can do those changes when I get home tonight.
Looking at the raw distortion, the sb65 looks like it would be most happy either crossed over at 400+hz or maybe in line array to increases the sound pressure level but keep the distortion low enough.
I would love to try them in a 3x line array, but 3 of them are the price as a 10f so it might not be so advantageous. But maybe even a 2x array might be enough to give good spl with low distortion.
My thought right now is a small line array on the side of the front baffle of a slot loaded open baffle (SLOB) bass for a compact near field FAST OB.
Sent from my K00R using Tapatalk
Looking at the raw distortion, the sb65 looks like it would be most happy either crossed over at 400+hz or maybe in line array to increases the sound pressure level but keep the distortion low enough.
I would love to try them in a 3x line array, but 3 of them are the price as a 10f so it might not be so advantageous. But maybe even a 2x array might be enough to give good spl with low distortion.
My thought right now is a small line array on the side of the front baffle of a slot loaded open baffle (SLOB) bass for a compact near field FAST OB.
Sent from my K00R using Tapatalk
Thanks Jeshi,
Invaluable.information.
I like the look, sound and data for that SB even more now. I'm still.searching for a UK supplier, Falcon does not seem to stock them 🙁
Invaluable.information.
I like the look, sound and data for that SB even more now. I'm still.searching for a UK supplier, Falcon does not seem to stock them 🙁
Mondo I use this place to buy my SB65s
Speakers Intertechnik - Shop
Great service and communication to boot.
I contacted Falcon a while ago and at the time they informed me that they were not going to stock the SB65.
Speakers Intertechnik - Shop
Great service and communication to boot.
I contacted Falcon a while ago and at the time they informed me that they were not going to stock the SB65.
High Qms and low Qes may equal high motor efficiency, but it is a bit of a stretch to say that high efficiency is related to low distortion. Drivers that are efficient due to lightened diaphragms almost almost always suffer from breakup issues which shape the non-linear distortion way up. Similarly dampening a diaphragm by adding mass will lower efficiency but the absence of severe diaphragm breakup will shape non-linear distortion down.
Additionally, using a powerful magnet may give low Qes but doesn't necessarily equal exceptionally linear excursion.
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Thanks alot. I had totally forgotten about this site!
I'm thinking I may need a pair to compare with the TB W3-1285 that I already own, for a 3 way I'm planning...C-C distance may prove an advantage, but I feel the need for a A/B audition 😀
I would've liked to have sent them to XRK for his latest test, but at £70 each, give or take, I didn't risk it.
Either I'm tight, or just poor ;D
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See that Intertechnik has them on stock, still waiting for their mail🙂 They offered to inform me when they first receive the SB65, 1.5 years ago 🙂 Used a TangBand instead from rumoh.eu .
NE65W may be the hot ticket
If you all like the SB65 so much another driver to consider is the NE65W from Tymphany. As usual, Vifa/Tymphany/Peerless looks to be a flat flat response.
About same price as SB65 and may be easier for some to get.
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/spec_sheets/tympany_08172011/NE65W-04.pdf
$32 from PE or Madi
Tymphany NE65W-04 2" Full Range Woofer
If you all like the SB65 so much another driver to consider is the NE65W from Tymphany. As usual, Vifa/Tymphany/Peerless looks to be a flat flat response.
About same price as SB65 and may be easier for some to get.
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/spec_sheets/tympany_08172011/NE65W-04.pdf
$32 from PE or Madi
Tymphany NE65W-04 2" Full Range Woofer
Nah you're not tight you just really like the W3! From the limited measurements I've seen of it it has some resonance issues around 1-2kHz. It also only has 0.4mm of xmax. Now this driver is underhung with an 8mm top plate so has a 7.2mm tall coil. It won't go non linear more gracefully than drivers with the standard long coil and short gap, but it's still not a lot of xmax.
The SB looks like it would work very well as an upgrade IMO. Of course the SB is far less sensitive so keep an eye out for that.
A poor excuse for a human 😉
I wondered about the TB xmax is very small,but damage x must be 5mm one way.
THD does increase after exceeding xmax, but I don't hear it until displacement hits about 2mm peak.
I haven't had luck seeing any measured plots of this TB, but it sounds largely balanced, until you get up to 10k
I wondered about the TB xmax is very small,but damage x must be 5mm one way.
THD does increase after exceeding xmax, but I don't hear it until displacement hits about 2mm peak.
I haven't had luck seeing any measured plots of this TB, but it sounds largely balanced, until you get up to 10k
I am recording data for the final Round 4 - which was originally meant to be the final round to select an overall winner from the top two of previous rounds.
Is this what we want or would you all rather have round 4 be another round with mostly all new drivers (I have 4 new ones) and can add some reference ones like the entire TC9/TG9/10F family or TC9FD/10F/B80 - top from each round ?
I have the three sound clips selected already and have converted the source to mono but will record clips in stereo. You can play in mono of you wish but stereo is closer to what it would sound like if you actually used your own ears if auditioning the drivers in my speaker lab.
The three clips will be:
Rock - Barracuda - Heart
Jazz - piano/bass/drums - Chick Corea/Further Explorations album
Vocals - Rachelle Ferrell - Satisfied
New drivers that are available for round 4/5 include:
Fountek FR88EX 3in aluminum cone Nd motor
Tectonic Elements TEBM46C20N-4B 3in BMR Paper cone Nd motor
Vifa TC7FD00-04 2.5in paper cone ferrite motor
Tymphany NE65W 2.5in aluminum cone Nd motor
Is this what we want or would you all rather have round 4 be another round with mostly all new drivers (I have 4 new ones) and can add some reference ones like the entire TC9/TG9/10F family or TC9FD/10F/B80 - top from each round ?
I have the three sound clips selected already and have converted the source to mono but will record clips in stereo. You can play in mono of you wish but stereo is closer to what it would sound like if you actually used your own ears if auditioning the drivers in my speaker lab.
The three clips will be:
Rock - Barracuda - Heart
Jazz - piano/bass/drums - Chick Corea/Further Explorations album
Vocals - Rachelle Ferrell - Satisfied
New drivers that are available for round 4/5 include:
Fountek FR88EX 3in aluminum cone Nd motor
Tectonic Elements TEBM46C20N-4B 3in BMR Paper cone Nd motor
Vifa TC7FD00-04 2.5in paper cone ferrite motor
Tymphany NE65W 2.5in aluminum cone Nd motor
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I'd say TC9FD/10F/B80, both because they are the winners from each previous round, and because (but that's personal) I have both the tc9fd and the tg9fd (8 and 4 ohm flavors), and the tc9 sounds a bit better to me.
The TG9FD lost from the 10F and will probably loose again, so it will be much more interesting to learn how the B80 fares compared to the TC9 and the 10F.
The TG9FD lost from the 10F and will probably loose again, so it will be much more interesting to learn how the B80 fares compared to the TC9 and the 10F.
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I wouldn't mind a 7 driver shoot-out: 4 new drivers + 3 winners (TC9FD/10F/B80).
The NE65 is close enough to the 830986 and 830983 that it should be able to stand-in as proxy for those drivers (which each came in second place in rounds 2 and 3).
I personally would like to see the TC9 and TG9 go head-to-head in a shootout (especially for future diyers to reference back to for their own benefit) since there seems to be a 50:50 split on people's preference. But this is not a big deal if the general feeling is to just go with the cheaper and more often used TC9.
The NE65 is close enough to the 830986 and 830983 that it should be able to stand-in as proxy for those drivers (which each came in second place in rounds 2 and 3).
I personally would like to see the TC9 and TG9 go head-to-head in a shootout (especially for future diyers to reference back to for their own benefit) since there seems to be a 50:50 split on people's preference. But this is not a big deal if the general feeling is to just go with the cheaper and more often used TC9.
It would be interesting to have the BMR tested, I have the almost identical Cotswold Sound Systems 8 ohm version. Would be good to see how a BMR compares against the great drivers already topping the charts. I was even thinking to send you one.
In a way had looked forward to a finale with winner and second from the first three rounds, especially because system and recording technic had upped in various steps since round 1 then find it interesting to listen round 1/2/3 first and second under these new same conditions. TG9 as talked about would be interesting added even it wasn't winner or second but because it was so close to round 2 winner 10F and the TG9 version that X have is the hard to get 8 ohm version that is rumored to be better than 4 ohm version.
Those four new drivers looks as interesting stuff 🙂 look forward have a listen, although find it confusing if they be in a finale without first presented via a normal round. Therefor suggest run a normal round and postpone finale until later and i could send you X a pair of Fountek FR58EX then there be one more competitor for a normal round.
Those four new drivers looks as interesting stuff 🙂 look forward have a listen, although find it confusing if they be in a finale without first presented via a normal round. Therefor suggest run a normal round and postpone finale until later and i could send you X a pair of Fountek FR58EX then there be one more competitor for a normal round.
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