No worries. Just say if you're not sure on anything.
Just for the sake of completeness, there's a couple of revisions of the DAC boards. The newer ones have nice links to join the A and B output pairs like in the schematic I scrawled on above, but if you have the older one like me, you'll need to use a couple of short wires.
Yes. I think we just about see it the same WRT all the above. I think this is also, where having more than one complete sytem helps, because it can pull us back sometimes with a jerk and you then go forth revealing an opportunity ahead. I am doing this with DHT845 and SS Class A amp set ups. And we must believe that there is a path for the DAC. Tomorrow a DAC chip designer could give us a new type of chip that does it all better. I am glad we cannot see too far ahead or it could spoil our fun. Burr Brown
certainly knew what they were doing, but a lot of the old designs were current hungry, and that was their advantage, An anathma for the modern age portable or safe new designs for the modern age, working preferably on voltage with miniscule current. Trouble is any analogue real world audio signal can only be amplified so much without losing absolute fidelity or what we like to hear.
just to let you know, in my version, I separate the analogue power completely from the digital.
So a CLC supply goes to the main board with a 5v super reg installed. I then take a dual feed direct from Vb to the two 3.3v super regs.
The separate analogue CLC supply feeds the 8v super regs directly.
I havn't upgraded the two 3.3v regs on the mainboard yet. And I havn't tried running th Wave IO from a separate CLC supply with a super reg either, but that's to come.
And then I can also try the CCS mods at some stage too!
David
David,
Do you have any photos to share? I particularly interested in your ps separation when the DAC board is sharing common ground plane. Are you saying each unregulated ps is used for digital and for analog separately?
Cheers.
Hi, I'm away this week but can post photos.But yes, I have one CLC supply for all digital, inc. opto coupler, receiver etc. i then have a separate CLC supply for the 8v part of the chips. They share negatve, and of copurse ground planes as in the original. Most importantly it just sounds so, so right this way.
David
Yes, we are in agreement, it seems.
I tend to go for the FIRST WATT sound having lost my patience for output tubes but know the sound of SETs and admire it.
You are on the money, just as the CD was stymied by its need to be small it follows the chips are compromised by their need to be run on regular batteries. I make the differentiation since I am using the A123 batteries to power my DAC and soon my computer - but those are not average batteries. (If you have not yet look into nige2000's posts at TIR NA about using these).
It tickles me to hear so much effort at making digital sound analogue. Since I listen mostly to analogue I wonder "why don't you listen to analogue, then?" I think digital has its own sound and advantages. I learn from going back and forth between the two. I would not want my digital system to sound like my turntable. There are plenty of things about analogue reproduction that I can gladly do without. Noise, for one. With one you deal with noise RIGHT OUT THERE in the open and with the other it is subtle, interleaved trash in the music - neither are wanted. Maybe it is easier to ignore the analogue version? Depends on your mood?
Another amusing thing is the comment that one cannot comment on multiple DAC board systems even when they have tried the multiple DAC boards BUT (try not to be staggered) these comments are made by someone who has not tried an optimized single board system.
Reminds me of a great quote used by a DIY Audio moderator (SY) from John Le Carre's character George Smiley, "The more you pay for it, the less inclined you are to doubt it" when asked if he had ever purchased a suspect bit of information but applicable here.
My point is that all approaches are valid, as you say, part of the fun of discovery. It would ruin it if perfection became available.
In my case that's relatively easy to answer. Because of space I long ago moved to digital music on a hard drive.
Like all adjectives applied to audio I don't mean sound like a turntable with noise. I simply mean audio without any nherent harshness, and where I am constantly wowed by that sense of timing, of musicians playing their hearts out in the studio or live.
Listening to my old top end anaologue turntable I never once felt there was an inherent harshness to the sound, or imprecision in the tming. I believe my DDDac is in this same league now, where it sounds naturally right (to my ears).
David
Can you live with 4 decks + Sowters, or didn't you try it in that configuration?
WaveIO Reclocker
I have a couple of S03 bare boards on order from Acko. In the meantime I constructed a simplified reclocker board using SOIC-14 adaptor boards and a perf board with pads on one side. I installed a 3.3V Belleson SPM with organic caps before and after the Vreg in addition to the 10nf ceramic caps at each device. Current draw is 70-80ma with only 3 reclocking flip-flop circuits used. I will upgrade to the Belleson SP standard so that no voltage dropping resistors are needed to keep from overheating the Vreg. The Crystek CCHD-950-100 includes a buffer so it was directly wired to the PO74G74 D flip-flop chips.
How does it sound? The music sounds more crisp, punchier and accurate. No change in musicality, flow, and listener fatigue which was very good before. The change in sound is small, but I'm going to keep the reclocker in my DDDAC. I suspect that the WaveIO with a Belleson 5V reg right at the external power input terminal already allows it to function as clean as possible. After I receive the S03 boards I will build and try one for comparison.
This simplified reclocker only works with the WaveIO and will NOT work with the rpi or BBB. It uses the isolator on the WaveIO. The main board and reclocker use the same unregulated power supply and ground.
Actually, I'm shocked that this board worked at all with no smoke or fire. It's about twice as much effort as the 1/2 clock delay board. Use of Acko S03 board highly recommended.
I have a couple of S03 bare boards on order from Acko. In the meantime I constructed a simplified reclocker board using SOIC-14 adaptor boards and a perf board with pads on one side. I installed a 3.3V Belleson SPM with organic caps before and after the Vreg in addition to the 10nf ceramic caps at each device. Current draw is 70-80ma with only 3 reclocking flip-flop circuits used. I will upgrade to the Belleson SP standard so that no voltage dropping resistors are needed to keep from overheating the Vreg. The Crystek CCHD-950-100 includes a buffer so it was directly wired to the PO74G74 D flip-flop chips.
How does it sound? The music sounds more crisp, punchier and accurate. No change in musicality, flow, and listener fatigue which was very good before. The change in sound is small, but I'm going to keep the reclocker in my DDDAC. I suspect that the WaveIO with a Belleson 5V reg right at the external power input terminal already allows it to function as clean as possible. After I receive the S03 boards I will build and try one for comparison.
This simplified reclocker only works with the WaveIO and will NOT work with the rpi or BBB. It uses the isolator on the WaveIO. The main board and reclocker use the same unregulated power supply and ground.
Actually, I'm shocked that this board worked at all with no smoke or fire. It's about twice as much effort as the 1/2 clock delay board. Use of Acko S03 board highly recommended.
Attachments
The fun of the discovery and an enquiring mind of course, underpins partly what we may think we are here for.
Re the digital versus analogue, it sure seems that many of us end up with both analogue and digital. In fact the FM live broadcasts set a cracking standard. And as the digital begins to outpace the FM in the treble and the bass, the digital offers detail in the treble that analogue struggles with whether FM or the best Vinyl or even master tape.
The more you pay for it the more you suffer for it. Because often there emerges a better solution. And its like everything else, there are new directions that become viable, and who is going to be the first to grab it, and usually first aim to cash in on it.
With DACs, the tranch over over complex over built designs that reach up beyond $5K, by stripping out most of the circuits, down to the DAC implementation esp. with the the right batteries, one can see something darn near unbeatable. Lampizator guy and his single triode buffer, so simple but very effective. Why also did we ever end up with op amps on audiophile DACs. When i/v to traffo or cap output seems so low key but absolute technical sense.
Great work!
I suspected you would get less improvement with the WaveIO compared to the Pi as the WaveIO already has a nice clock and was designed for audio, whereas the Pi really isn't and just fudges it's way along.
Why do you say your Diy reclocker wouldn't work with a Pi? Just the lack of Isolator? That's easily enough added with one of the free boards from diyinhk if you so choose.
Cool. Maybe in the new year, a few of us could work out a day of musical exploration and experimentation. I'd be happy to travel
Truly amusing.., that you two are! Do I read some sense of envy/jealousy here?!? Look, I would hate to read this wonderful thread turns into personal self-centred. If you have firm belief that single DAC is all it is needed based on your personal limited fund. That's ok! I actually happy for you.
In addition, you might have a valid point that I did not have the opportunity trying out the single optimised DAC, however, on the same token have you listened to the 11-Decks optimised? Any idea on how this configuration sounds? Simply speculate based on your limited experience with word-wiz is nothing but here says which worths no more than a personal opinion! I do not fancy politics, let alone the dirty one. If anything, show us what you could achieved with your DDDAC with photographic evidences and with respect like I have had for Stefan, James,..., Carlsor, Palmito, Enrico, and Stijn001. Let together contribute rather...., with self interest/promotion!
For perspective user(s), there is absolutely nothing wrong with Doede design, if any, his design made it easier for a successful implementation of the concept without overly complicated for competent DIYer! If you are into musical DAC, you have found the right place. I have spent over the past 18-months looking for a musical DAC, a DAC that can replicate a TT sonic signature and with pride I think I might have just found it! For your information, I have in my position highend Comercialised DAC, SACD, and CD-players in excess of $25k rrp each and yet DDDAC has won me over. I guess enough saying here!
Happy listenning!
Chanh
Last edited: