Heavy Metal Sub

[GM]

I am using horns above 150Hz and the horn community does not take kindly to my plans to fix midbass with a ported midbass array.

Well, best overall to mate horns to horns to match efficiency, polar response, but an EBS alignment using a HE mid-bass horn driver such as an Altec/GPA 515-8G can actually be superior overall to a sealed alignment. Ditto a TL.

Of course the differing time delay needs to be accounted for.

GM

 

[GM]

I'm collecting checks for the government. remember?

At 'only' 61?!

GM

 

[Rewind]

At 'only' 61?!

GM

EBS designs. Read a little about it. Not sure, because I don't want a lowered midrange.

 

[GM]

??? How do you figure it has any impact on the mids other than to extend them to a lower F3?

GM

 

[Rewind]

??? How do you figure it has any impact on the mids other than to extend them to a lower F3?

GM

In the links above there was a comment saying EBS can give lower bass but may sacrifice midrange. I am still on the subject to find a midwoofer desgn that requires a sub but still can cover some of the bass itself, which would make the idea of a sub less important. This could affect the choice of subwoofer to something that focus on going very low but not much above say ~ 60 Hz.

 

[Greebster]

Still lost as to how this pertains to the OP's question

 

[GM]

Well, EBS alignments tend to do heavy metal quite well in a typical HIFI app, but to do the "punch you in the gut and part you hair at the same time" with an inexpensive driver [is there such a thing in the 18" frame size?] requires a complex [horn] cab construction, which apparently isn't an option, so not sure he can 'have his cake and eat it too'.

GM

 

[Lost in Bass]

Hey GM! At 'only' 61?! Sorry to say it's called disability (permanent).

What is a 'EBS alignment'? All these abbreviations are driving me nuts! LOL

Thanks, Al.

 

[Lost in Bass]

Hey sine143!

What does USB sub stand for? I saved the plans you linked me to.

I like this design. Also I like a scoop where you can use the front-side as well as the back-side of the driver. Something about +3db?

Thanks, Al.

 

[Lost in Bass]

Thanks chris661. I was wondering the same thing!

Al.

 

[Lost in Bass]

I would like to keep the price of my 18" driver to around $150 ($100~200). I found a few in the Parts Express catalog.

Just trying to answer some questions I found in my thread.

Thanks, Al.

 

[BeauB]

I would like to keep the price of my 18" driver to around $150 ($100~200). I found a few in the Parts Express catalog.

Just trying to answer some questions I found in my thread.

Thanks, Al.

You might want to look at the SI HT18, although its a bit higher than your budget.

 

[Lost in Bass]

Hey BeauB! That's a great looking sub driver, especially for the price!

Would the dual voice coils be a problem or weak link?
Could I wire them (4 ohm) together in series for 8 ohm?
How would this differ from a regular 8 ohm single voice coil? Any kinks?

Thanks, Al.

 

[Lost in Bass]

Here's a couple amusing clips I found:

SI HT 18 D2 - YouTube

Stereo Integrity HT 18 D4 Excursion Testing - YouTube

Al.

 

[BeauB]

Hey BeauB! That's a great looking sub driver, especially for the price!

Would the dual voice coils be a problem or weak link?
Could I wire them (4 ohm) together in series for 8 ohm?
How would this differ from a regular 8 ohm single voice coil? Any kinks?

Thanks, Al.

Almost all subwoofer amps will support a 4 ohm load. For that reason I ordered my HT 18 in a D2 configuration so that when the voice coils wired in series they will present 4 ohms to the amplifier.

So, no DVC are not a weak link whatsoever.

The advantage of a DVC subwoofer over the SVC subwoofer is your available wiring options and flexibility. Single voice coil subwoofers can only be wired at the ohm level specified, for example 4 ohm. A dual voice coil will say 4 ohm, but it will actually wire to 2 ohm or 8 ohm. Generally, since the ohm level needs to match up with the ohm level your amplifier can handle, a DVC woofer will provide 2 wiring options while the SVC provides only one wiring option.

Another option - Dayton will soon be releasing an Ultra model in 18", as well. But I think that will be slightly more $$ still.

 

[Lost in Bass]

OK thanks BeauB.

Al.

 

[sine143]

I personally dont think the HT drivers are the way to go for a kick bin.

sure the final product will be a good music sub with capabilities into the mid 30s... but still, I'd rather a pro driver.

Esp considering those excursion videos are with content sub 20hz, neer to be produced by a kick drum ever (bass i love you at 8 hz, just a "look at how far the driver moves" track)

 

[lduarte1973]

I dont know what kind of metal you listen too , if you´re into 80´s metal their music has little content under 40 hz , modern " metal " bands have content till 20hz . That drum kick sound you look for is in the 80 - 100hz region , if you want to bring the bass guitar up it´s around 125hz . i think you would be better with 2 12 " inch subs

 

[GM]

Hey GM! At 'only' 61?! Sorry to say it's called disability (permanent).

What is a 'EBS alignment'? All these abbreviations are driving me nuts! LOL

Thanks, Al.

Bummer, hope you're not too crippled to function on your own.

EBS = extended bass shelf....... Over time it has been 'diluted' from a specific cab alignment to be a general description of any alignment that specs an oversize cab tuned really low, typically below Fs. In recent years it's even been reincarnated under a different name, but don't recall it ATM.

This tends to be an over-damped alignment ['tight'/'fast'] with a roll off slope that blends in with the room's gain curve to extend its usable BW without it becoming 'one note'/'boomy'.

As such, low-medium Qts drivers work best overall, though a higher Qt will work [the original spec’d a 0.62 Qts], but it typically requires an unacceptably large cab.

An ‘old school’ traditional TL tuned to Fs is another variant.

Bottom line, to get the kind of performance you want typically requires prosound drivers with plenty of clean power on tap = good size budget. That, or have a small concrete bunker to get a lot of room gain.

My stereo pair of corner loaded, dual Altec 515B [15”]/300 W channel/500 Hz horns in ~20 ft^3 net tuned to ~16 Hz can barely do a live drum [~115 dB/~14.4 ft] in a fairly open format 16 x 24 ft room, so a single 18” isn’t going to cut it.

That said, if the sub is a nearby coffee table and the main’s mid-bass, lower mids was ‘pumped up’ where most of drum’s ‘kick’/’punch’ is, then it might be sufficient.

GM

 

[Lost in Bass]

Thanks, guys!

I've been doing some research. I thought I would take a closer look at my low mid cabs and see just what I'm trying to hook up with.

I got some specs from Electro Voice for my EV TL806 cabs (often called 12" Thieles) loaded with EVM12L drivers.

Basically, they are ruler fat from 100~300Hz with -3db at 80Hz; 95 SPL w/1 watt and 120 SPL at full power (200 watts). They go higher to 1.6Hz with a +6db bump at 700Hz then higher to 5kHz with a couple more bumps. Great guitar speaker! LOL

Looks like my sub will need to be flat from 40Hz~100Hz with equivalent (or higher) SPL. It will be a single mono 18". The Vd of an 18 (22.95in.3) well covers the Vd of my two 12"s (20.2in.3).

Now I need to choose a cabinet. I like the concept of 1/2 a USB sub, I could build another at a later date to make a full 2x18 USB sub if need be. However, I've seen specs where the cab rolls off steeply at 50Hz. A half cab version might be worse, so this may not be my cab.

I've been looking at these short horn/bandpass type boxes as well. Why not, my Hi-Fi is stuck in the '80s (as am I)! LOL

EV T18
EV SB180
EV SH-1810L-ER (my favorite)

I also found this variant which I can't find specs for:
Thanks, Al.