Oh, OK, does these sites tell you anything? I can't read German
Cantare Veravox 3
Projekt 1
I wish I had the dimensions and details for the plan in the second link. It doesn't even show how wide it is.
lol, this is making me crap my pants. I used google translate and found that they had a plan with the Omnes Audio BB3.AL which I read is the same as the Veravox 3X. I found the link to the plans. Now maybe I won't have to figure out the dimensions of the cab and I have details of a notch filter. cool
That's not a notch filter, don't know for certain how it's called in English, but I think 'shelving' filter, which is basically the same as a baffle step correction filter. It just lowers the response after a certain point....
That should work just fine looking at the specs they are barely different...
There is plenty of knowledge on the net, ever looked at linkwitzlab.com and the rod elliot sound pages?
Been doing some more listening to the FR89EX with the notch I created yesterday, but now in my living room from the couch, yesterday they were on my desk over at work. They sound really... large... but there is a but I havent quite figured out yet. And the missus who should have the edge in hearing can't quite help because though she's having the better tool at hand it takes a skilled craftsman to know how to use it...
It seemed perhaps voices had gone a bit too dry and everybody sounded just slightly as though they were suffering from a cold.
I've experienced more than once before that colourations and resonances can be attenuated, but it won't really solve them. Now a waterfall spec graph of the 89 would perhaps reveal some of the problem. Haven't come across one so far. Thought maybe I needed to alter the tuning of the filter a little bit....so I did...
Right now listening to the sound of TopGear UK with the following dual notch:
AMPLIFIER-> Parallel notch of:
300uH-6.8Rmox-10uF followed by:
300uH-3.3Rmox-10uF
Which is basically notching somewhat lower, both a little wider and more shallow....
It is impossible for now to tell the precise difference, but although the previous filter was very pleasant with music, this one seems much better on voices of speech. Bit better midrange clarity while maintaining the slight gain of high range airyness. Still need to do some musical listening tests...
Stay tuned!
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Did I understood correctly from google translator that they used small flower pots for the Veravox 3X? Would you put old socks in there as damping material?
Okay, been doing some more work with the FR88EX. Now at my desk they have by far the best percieved response with 11.5uF, 5R mox, 0.3mH
No time any more now for a shoot-out with the FR89EX, but for as far as I can tell the pleasantness in the mid-high range is on par now only the FR89EX go far further in power handling (as expected) and are probably the better real fullrangers.
Oh and I wouldn't really recommend what's been done here:
http://bremen-audio.de/html/mini-al_reloaded.html
The enclosure is fine, but that 'filter' is making the high frequency response really dull!
No time any more now for a shoot-out with the FR89EX, but for as far as I can tell the pleasantness in the mid-high range is on par now only the FR89EX go far further in power handling (as expected) and are probably the better real fullrangers.
Oh and I wouldn't really recommend what's been done here:
http://bremen-audio.de/html/mini-al_reloaded.html
The enclosure is fine, but that 'filter' is making the high frequency response really dull!
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Alright, both speakers in a shootout. As expected, the FR88EX is the winner in mid-high range clarity and the FR89EX is the winner in power handling and bass performance. The bass performance is actually incredible and makes this driver a great choice. Mid-high range of the 89 is still amazing and super mellow, which makes me actually prefer the 89. The warmth and ease of the sound of this driver is very very pleasant. The 88 is the better driver for those who prefer the somewhat more monitor like sound, more clarity. The 88 is still definitely not a bass shy driver, as a matter of fact it is a lot more bassy than any other 3" I've ever come across before.
Both systems do very well now both on a desk and in my living room. My living room has the tendency to amplify bass frequencies by quite a bit, being all concrete and very narrow, we have no other option than to place the sofa against the back wall, so listening distance is pretty close (about 3 meters). In this case this is very welcome though, whereas with larger systems it tends to exaggerate the bass far too much and make them sound boomy.
The filters for the systems are now:
FR89EX:
AMPLIFIER------> Notch of: 3,3R 10W mox + 10uF polyester cap + 0,3mH ferrite core choke -------> another notch of 6,8R 10W mox + 10uF polyester cap + 0,3mH ferrite choke-------> Driver unit.
FR88EX:
AMPLIFIER--------> Notch of:5R 10W mox + 11,5uF polyester cap (8,2+3,3) + 0,33mH ferrite choke-------> Driver unit.
I might still be able to enhance the 89 high frequency response by enlarging the capacitors, that I will try later on.
So far I am very happy with the results, but bare in mind these might NOT measure a linear response on axis! Probably will do better off axis though. So before you are going to order parts you might want to get a little larger chokes, some capacitor and resistor values around half value to be able to parallel them in to slightly different values. Your room/preference/source etc. might be different!
I have ditched the BSC filter on the 88, which was definitely not necessary on my work desk, but I later on noticed it killed the livelyness of them and wasnt really working out for the benefit.
I hope these reports help some to get the best out of these amazing little ones! Would love to see feedback by others who tried the filters I have laid out!
Oh P.S. I was working with a pair of FF85WK drivers today which I couldnt resist to order, though over here these cost almost €50, which is even more in dollars right now. Out of the box sound wasn't too bad, but I wasn't too impressed either. Guess I am a bass lover then. Right now I do think for European diyers the Founteks are quite great for their price compared to the Fostex units and definitely have benefits over them!
Both systems do very well now both on a desk and in my living room. My living room has the tendency to amplify bass frequencies by quite a bit, being all concrete and very narrow, we have no other option than to place the sofa against the back wall, so listening distance is pretty close (about 3 meters). In this case this is very welcome though, whereas with larger systems it tends to exaggerate the bass far too much and make them sound boomy.
The filters for the systems are now:
FR89EX:
AMPLIFIER------> Notch of: 3,3R 10W mox + 10uF polyester cap + 0,3mH ferrite core choke -------> another notch of 6,8R 10W mox + 10uF polyester cap + 0,3mH ferrite choke-------> Driver unit.
FR88EX:
AMPLIFIER--------> Notch of:5R 10W mox + 11,5uF polyester cap (8,2+3,3) + 0,33mH ferrite choke-------> Driver unit.
I might still be able to enhance the 89 high frequency response by enlarging the capacitors, that I will try later on.
So far I am very happy with the results, but bare in mind these might NOT measure a linear response on axis! Probably will do better off axis though. So before you are going to order parts you might want to get a little larger chokes, some capacitor and resistor values around half value to be able to parallel them in to slightly different values. Your room/preference/source etc. might be different!
I have ditched the BSC filter on the 88, which was definitely not necessary on my work desk, but I later on noticed it killed the livelyness of them and wasnt really working out for the benefit.
I hope these reports help some to get the best out of these amazing little ones! Would love to see feedback by others who tried the filters I have laid out!
Oh P.S. I was working with a pair of FF85WK drivers today which I couldnt resist to order, though over here these cost almost €50, which is even more in dollars right now. Out of the box sound wasn't too bad, but I wasn't too impressed either. Guess I am a bass lover then.
Right now I do think for European diyers the Founteks are quite great for their price compared to the Fostex units and definitely have benefits over them!V-bro, yikes! - the vagaries of international commerce, currency exchange fluctuations, import duties etc can certainly play havoc with evaluation of cost / performance quotient.
Over here the Fostex FF85WK and Fountek FR88EX are currently priced within approx $2 of each other - and while I recently built a few test boxes from Dave's recent design set for the latter, they wouldn't replace the Fostex in any system I'd want to listen to.
As I remarked in another thread, I had a quick listen to Scanspeak 10F driver last night, which certainly didn't sound hurtful, but definitely has some limitations as a full-range. Most significantly though, I think, at $88 each, it has a serious price handicap when compared to similar size range wide-band drivers selling here as much as less than half that amount.
Over here the Fostex FF85WK and Fountek FR88EX are currently priced within approx $2 of each other - and while I recently built a few test boxes from Dave's recent design set for the latter, they wouldn't replace the Fostex in any system I'd want to listen to.
As I remarked in another thread, I had a quick listen to Scanspeak 10F driver last night, which certainly didn't sound hurtful, but definitely has some limitations as a full-range. Most significantly though, I think, at $88 each, it has a serious price handicap when compared to similar size range wide-band drivers selling here as much as less than half that amount.
Oh P.S. I was working with a pair of FF85WK drivers today which I couldnt resist to order, though over here these cost almost €50, which is even more in dollars right now. Out of the box sound wasn't too bad, but I wasn't too impressed either. Guess I am a bass lover then.
As far as I know Fostex units usually require quite a few hours for break in - don't have any experience with the FF85WK though. My FE166EN improved a lot after passing 40 hours and got better with more. I am not saying that Fostex FF85WK will end up souding better than the Fountek though
. Good to know that you're having fun with both the Founteks.same general rule applies here
must resist comment ......My FE166EN improved a lot after passing 40 hours and got better with more. I am not saying that Fostex FF85WK will end up sounding better than the Fountek though
I gave them a 48h break in with the tone generator, pink noise at quite a disturbing level..... It did make a difference and they do sound pretty well balanced, but are definitely in need of some helper woofer.... Off course I need some more time with them before my ears are adjusted to them....
They will, but never do as well/deep as the FR88ex (or Alpair6.2, or even the Aura NS3)
dave
Notch for FR89EX
Using a single notch filter with 0,56mH//5,7uF//10ohm you will get the same result.
On a litle larger box (22,2x14,4cm hxw) I've used a 0,56mH//8,2uF//8,2ohm notch filter. This filter is basically tuned to the same frequency but has 1 or 2 dB more in mid high frequency (which is consistence with the more larger box).
As to your review on both drivers, I'm in line with you.... nice work v-bro
cool
Thanks for posting those pages. Can you say in general how they compare FR88 to FR88EX? I wanted to know if the FR88 is still somewhat in the same league as the FR88EX. I'll likely try Google translator but I know sometimes sentences from foreign languages are translated like: "A cool car...on a roof...make for bad Halloween...".
Thanks for posting those pages. Can you say in general how they compare FR88 to FR88EX? I wanted to know if the FR88 is still somewhat in the same league as the FR88EX. I'll likely try Google translator but I know sometimes sentences from foreign languages are translated like: "A cool car...on a roof...make for bad Halloween...".
Well the acoustic response is very similar, though the 88EX has a very slight raised performance in the midrange, it has lots better low end performance. The main difference is the Qts of the 88 being higher due to the lower force of the magnet, this means it needs a larger enclosre and still goes less deep.
If you intend to use these with a subwoofer then I doubt there will be any percieved difference.
If you intend to use these with a subwoofer then I doubt there will be any percieved difference.
Another notable difference between the original FR88 and the FR88EX is the magnetic gap height. FR88's gap height is 3mm (I suppose it's evenhung), while FR88EX gets an underhung motor and the gap height's 10mm. I have never tried these drivers, but I would prefer the EX as its tinier neo magnet is less obstructive to the ventilation of the chassis.
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@ v-bro: wow, thanks for your detailed and extensive documentation!
it's great to follow all your permutations.
too bad about the copy right issues.
I was fabulating about most of the drivers you choose to post charts/info on... Thanks, was great to see all that side by side!
good luck with your builds!
it's great to follow all your permutations.
too bad about the copy right issues.
I was fabulating about most of the drivers you choose to post charts/info on... Thanks, was great to see all that side by side!
good luck with your builds!
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