That directivity narrowing around 2.2khz looks strange.
Did you use the integrated passive crossover (300hz and 1250hz) ?
Did you use the integrated passive crossover (300hz and 1250hz) ?
Paul DIY "S2.2"
Large (90deg) DIY Unity Horn:
Red Spade Audio: Synergy prototype #2 - construction 3
Directivity sonogram, normalised
Frequency plots, 0-90deg, 10deg increment, non-normalised:
Large (90deg) DIY Unity Horn:
Red Spade Audio: Synergy prototype #2 - construction 3
Directivity sonogram, normalised
Frequency plots, 0-90deg, 10deg increment, non-normalised:
The narrowing of the Yorkville was a surprise. It could be related to the lack of a mouth round over. There is an interesting AES paper by Keele about a certain CE horn, it basically joins an expo throat to a conical, but they found that a second flare angle was needed at the mouth to avoid beaming. This is why you see that second flare on the Synergy horn, to avoid pattern narrowing and I suspect it might be the cause of the problem.
I've built two Synergy horns so far and the bigger one shown here with the mouth flare is the smoother of the two, clearly better. Achieving pattern control so far down into the midrange does sound very different. It is a dry sound, quite unfamiliar. I believe wider dispersion that you get with just about everything except very big horns and dipoles, even in a Geddes Summa, is responsible for a sense of added body to the sound. The absence of this effect is startling. At first I wasn't convinced.
A couple of things I notice about the Synergy horn. Very detailed, it's as if details buried start to emerge, low level detail. I'm not talking about the artificial sense of detail you get with some speakers, but instead you notice details otherwise missed, like a little tap of the drummer's foot. Great clarity. Extreme dynamics. Very clean and composed at all levels. There are quite a few things in common with other high sensitivity speakers, but I would say there is greater clarity and detail. That is not to say that everyone would prefer this over a two way like an Ewave or a Geddes style speaker. Within the spectrum of speakers, I would say they are in similar territory although also with clear differences.
Just started a new thread on them:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/200539-diy-synergy-horn.html
I've built two Synergy horns so far and the bigger one shown here with the mouth flare is the smoother of the two, clearly better. Achieving pattern control so far down into the midrange does sound very different. It is a dry sound, quite unfamiliar. I believe wider dispersion that you get with just about everything except very big horns and dipoles, even in a Geddes Summa, is responsible for a sense of added body to the sound. The absence of this effect is startling. At first I wasn't convinced.
A couple of things I notice about the Synergy horn. Very detailed, it's as if details buried start to emerge, low level detail. I'm not talking about the artificial sense of detail you get with some speakers, but instead you notice details otherwise missed, like a little tap of the drummer's foot. Great clarity. Extreme dynamics. Very clean and composed at all levels. There are quite a few things in common with other high sensitivity speakers, but I would say there is greater clarity and detail. That is not to say that everyone would prefer this over a two way like an Ewave or a Geddes style speaker. Within the spectrum of speakers, I would say they are in similar territory although also with clear differences.
Just started a new thread on them:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/200539-diy-synergy-horn.html
Dayton Audio H07E 6"x6" $8 and Celestion CDX1-1745 $90
Dayton Audio H07E 6" x 6" Elliptical Waveguide 1" Threaded
Celestion CDX1-1745 Ferrite 1" Compression Driver 75W 294-2124
All measured indoor due to possible rain. 1250hz LR2 witn no eq/notches.
Non-Normalised graphs:
Normalised:
Dayton Audio H07E 6" x 6" Elliptical Waveguide 1" Threaded
Celestion CDX1-1745 Ferrite 1" Compression Driver 75W 294-2124
All measured indoor due to possible rain. 1250hz LR2 witn no eq/notches.
Non-Normalised graphs:
Normalised:
Pyle Pro PH612 (Econowave) $15 and Celestion CDX1-1745 $90
Aluminium adapter is used on the compression driver to mount to screw-on waveguide
Device under test:
Measurement graphs. Indoor, 1250 LR2 xo, no EQ or notches
Non-Normalised
Normalised
Very smooth directivity, rivaling B&C DE250 + the same Pyle waveguide.
Three of us did listening comparison and can happily say this is as good as the more expensive B&C DE250. Very good value.
Blue: Celestion CDX1-1745
Black: B&C DE250
There is nothing between them even with the same XO configuration.
Aluminium adapter is used on the compression driver to mount to screw-on waveguide
Device under test:
Measurement graphs. Indoor, 1250 LR2 xo, no EQ or notches
Non-Normalised
Normalised
Very smooth directivity, rivaling B&C DE250 + the same Pyle waveguide.
Three of us did listening comparison and can happily say this is as good as the more expensive B&C DE250. Very good value.
Blue: Celestion CDX1-1745
Black: B&C DE250
There is nothing between them even with the same XO configuration.
Last edited:
what about jbl mega pt (progressive waveguide)............
Rounded at the throat, conical, then round-over to baffle.
I think the 2384 could be a winner.
Norman
Rounded at the throat, conical, then round-over to baffle.
I think the 2384 could be a winner.
Norman
Recently I measured Dayton Audio 8" Waveguide with D220Ti and DE250
They look remarkably similar.
Hi there, what to you think of the dayton 8"? Any value in it? What about the bigger ones, the 10" and the 12"?
Thanks!
in its range a Karlson-slotted pipe is one of the best sounding waveguides I've heard/used. Karlson first used a slotted metal pipe around 1966 in production "X15" system - the 1965 X15 had a wooden waveguide.
hey Norm where can I get that waveguide? - it might be a bit wide for my reflex boxes in vertical configuration
I've run the little Transylvania Power Company "The Tube" on top of these
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hey Norm where can I get that waveguide? - it might be a bit wide for my reflex boxes in vertical configuration
I've run the little Transylvania Power Company "The Tube" on top of these
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Have any one else tried the Faital Pro STH100, tractrix? I have bought a pair but haven’t tried them in a setup yet.
I am going to use them together with Faital HF104.
The horn is extremely cheap. Especially considered its high build quality and that it is made in cast aluminium. In Sweden it only costs 24 euro a piece.
Many of my acquaintance are very enthusiastic about this combination of driver and horn and say that this is something of the best they have experienced. I am of cause very keen to try them and se what they are good for.
Kind regards
/Forsman
I am going to use them together with Faital HF104.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The horn is extremely cheap. Especially considered its high build quality and that it is made in cast aluminium. In Sweden it only costs 24 euro a piece.
Many of my acquaintance are very enthusiastic about this combination of driver and horn and say that this is something of the best they have experienced. I am of cause very keen to try them and se what they are good for.
Kind regards
/Forsman
That's very impressive. Even the vertical plot !!
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An 8" would work well. For example this is a sonogram of B&C 8ps21
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
As an aside, that driver has extremely good distortion performance, and yet it doesn't seem to be vented behind the spider. No reports of undue self-noise, either.An 8" would work well. For example this is a sonogram of B&C 8ps21
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oops, hiya Freddi.
Those look like my jbl 4508a boxes you have.
waveguide ?
I'm closely looking at the jbl 2384 horn (1.5" rounded throat to conical, similar to peavey quadratic or geddes but 90 x 40 dispersion I like). It is not sold seperately but can be bought from a jbl part supplier. There are 2 or so versions, one with the thread on 1" threaded (3622 loudspeaker I think) and the 1.5" version in 4622. But $180 is getting price for me to play with just 1, and I don't own any 1.5" jbl drivers either. I bet it is better than my ev hr horn though.
Maybe after X-mass.
Norman
Those look like my jbl 4508a boxes you have.
waveguide ?
I'm closely looking at the jbl 2384 horn (1.5" rounded throat to conical, similar to peavey quadratic or geddes but 90 x 40 dispersion I like). It is not sold seperately but can be bought from a jbl part supplier. There are 2 or so versions, one with the thread on 1" threaded (3622 loudspeaker I think) and the 1.5" version in 4622. But $180 is getting price for me to play with just 1, and I don't own any 1.5" jbl drivers either. I bet it is better than my ev hr horn though.
Maybe after X-mass.
Norman