There is clearly a difference but it is almost certainly due to the speakers - position and the fact that they are not the same.
IMO, this 'test' was rigged to make the SS amp sound worse.
Speakers are the same model and uses same drivers
Dear MJL21193
for sure they are in different position, and this turns the comparison less fair...less precise..but do not invalidate....less precise may be better word for that...we can overcome these details and evaluate better and worse even this way.
We have not 1 and 10 in our human levels of evaluation...we have 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and nine....if you prefer...1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and so on (also 1.11....)...so, we can perceive differences even this way...i can.... and thousands of Youtube users also can...in the reality milions uses Youtube to advertise their songs and performances..also tests...so.... millions perceive differences....or humans will only perceive 1 or 10?
You know what speaker makes when in the corner..also what happens when have glass and aluminium behind..also what distance makes with sound...so...as you are skilled...you can make your mind discounts..and even this way..was clear and absolute the Tube beated the Quad..in a such easy way that even people that are not able to analise these things can easily perceive.
We can compare one automobile at top speed and also we can compare it at average speeds....you do not need to have always top quality reproduction to perceive the less bad between two bad recordings.... we need to be skilled and to engage our brain.
From 1 to 10...if A is 1 and B is 2.... then B is higher and have more quality than A.... and both are no good recordings...of course we can..no doubt we can..for sure we can.
Dear Bigun
You see dear Bigun...you have engaged your brain..you detected the test was made to force the result ...better to the tube...but even this way..if you could invert speakers..the tube would beat anyway....because the transistor speaker... the one was next the window, had reflections that helps the treble..and exactly that was loose...so... the one is mufled compared to the other..clearly..absolutelly no doubt...ratio may be 2 to Quad and 5 to the tube...if you substitute speakers, the rate will be 2 to the Quad and 6 to the tube.
Well.... this is opinions....never mind..... the Supercharged can beat both of them..and this is the Supercharged thread.
regards,
Carlos
Dear MJL21193
for sure they are in different position, and this turns the comparison less fair...less precise..but do not invalidate....less precise may be better word for that...we can overcome these details and evaluate better and worse even this way.
We have not 1 and 10 in our human levels of evaluation...we have 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and nine....if you prefer...1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and so on (also 1.11....)...so, we can perceive differences even this way...i can.... and thousands of Youtube users also can...in the reality milions uses Youtube to advertise their songs and performances..also tests...so.... millions perceive differences....or humans will only perceive 1 or 10?
You know what speaker makes when in the corner..also what happens when have glass and aluminium behind..also what distance makes with sound...so...as you are skilled...you can make your mind discounts..and even this way..was clear and absolute the Tube beated the Quad..in a such easy way that even people that are not able to analise these things can easily perceive.
We can compare one automobile at top speed and also we can compare it at average speeds....you do not need to have always top quality reproduction to perceive the less bad between two bad recordings.... we need to be skilled and to engage our brain.
From 1 to 10...if A is 1 and B is 2.... then B is higher and have more quality than A.... and both are no good recordings...of course we can..no doubt we can..for sure we can.
Dear Bigun
You see dear Bigun...you have engaged your brain..you detected the test was made to force the result ...better to the tube...but even this way..if you could invert speakers..the tube would beat anyway....because the transistor speaker... the one was next the window, had reflections that helps the treble..and exactly that was loose...so... the one is mufled compared to the other..clearly..absolutelly no doubt...ratio may be 2 to Quad and 5 to the tube...if you substitute speakers, the rate will be 2 to the Quad and 6 to the tube.
Well.... this is opinions....never mind..... the Supercharged can beat both of them..and this is the Supercharged thread.
regards,
Carlos
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Maybe....or Transistorex!
hehehehhe🙂
]
Youtube had 245 million hits in November 2010
regards,
Carlos
hehehehhe🙂
]
Youtube had 245 million hits in November 2010
regards,
Carlos
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Are you a partner yet? Getting a slice of the ad revenue sounds better than any amp.
DEAR SIR
GREETINGS what should be ideal condenser bank for 2 channel
of blameless supercharged here is my supply 15000 uf per rail will add 2 more
caps that makes it 30000uf per rail is it okay supplyhas
2 delay both channel dc protector clip led speaker short circuit and 15 volt
regulated supply
have a MERRY CHRISTMAS
thanking you
andrew lebon
GREETINGS what should be ideal condenser bank for 2 channel
of blameless supercharged here is my supply 15000 uf per rail will add 2 more
caps that makes it 30000uf per rail is it okay supplyhas
2 delay both channel dc protector clip led speaker short circuit and 15 volt
regulated supply
have a MERRY CHRISTMAS
thanking you
andrew lebon
Attachments
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
What is the recommended supply rail capacitance ?
I remember reading more than once that some people find too little or too much a bad thing and that a value around 4700u is good (for AKSA amp if I remember correctly).
I remember reading more than once that some people find too little or too much a bad thing and that a value around 4700u is good (for AKSA amp if I remember correctly).
Dx Blame MKII Supercharged needs to operate full power at 8 ohms
8600uf plus 8600uf, or more, to each channel (8 ohms)
20.000uf plus 20.000uf to each channel (4 ohms)
if you decide to use a single supply to feed both channels:
20.000uf plus 20.000uf to feed two channels operating 8 ohms
40.000uf plus 40.000uf to feed two channels operating 4 ohms.
Rail fuses are 3.5A to positive rail, 3.5 amperes to negative rail if you decide to operate the amplifier together 4 ohms speaker.... the speaker fuse will be 7A in this case...or the higher and next comercial value in the sequence.
Rail fuses are 1.8A plus 1.8 amperes amperes, or more if you decide to operate your amplifier together 8 ohms speaker.... the speaker fuse will be 3.5A in this case
200 watts at 4 ohms is aproximatelly 28 volts RMS over the load.....in the reality, dear Andrewlebon, this amplifier can put much more power out...higher voltage can be put out.... 100/200 watts is conservative...may be called minimum power output.
In the reality it can put out 159 watts RMS, over 8 ohms loads, using sinusoidal signal at the input, at the threshold of clipping, distortion smaller than 0,005% THD.... when it will be draining 2A each rail....needing in the real world 10.000uf plus 10.000uf to each channel of filtering condensers.....if your supply is keept stable at 55V plus 55V..... in this moment your fuses may be at the limit if they're not slow blow models...or you will be needing 2 plus 2 amperes fuses to the rails and 4 amperes in series with your speaker...... 55 VDC supplies comes from a 39 plus 39 AC transformer, that after rectification and filtering goes from 39VAC to 55 VDC... in this case, to each channel, over 8 ohms, if powered by a single transformer, will need a 220 watts transformer.... and of course you may need to double it to 440 watts transformer if you decide to feed both channels, at 8 ohms, using a single transformer.... transformer primary fuse is 2 and 4 amperes respectively to these cases.
In the reality it can put out 264 watts RMS, over 4 ohms loads, using sinusoidal signal at the input, at the threshold of clipping, distortion smaller than 0.005% THD... when it will be draining 3.7A each rail...needing in the real world 20.000uf plus 20.000uf to each channel filtering
condensers...if your supply is keept stabe at 55V plus 55VDC.... in this moment your fuses may be at the limit if they're not slow blow models...or you will be needing 4 plus 4 ampere fuses to the rails and 8 ampere in series with the speaker....... 55 VDC supplies comes from a 39 plus 39 AC transformer, will need a 440 watts transformer..... and of course you may
need to double it to 880 watts transformer if you decide to feed both channels, at 8 ohms, using a single transformer.... transformer primary fuse is 4 and 8 amperes respectively to these cases
As transformers use to have voltage drops while the amplifier is operating full power, i decided to make a conservative specification..but you have a lot of headrom in the real life... accepting a little distortion you can put out, easy, 300 watts to each channel, and this will depends how huge are your power transformers.... it is a risky enterprise to use too much strong transformers as you may exceed output transistors dissipation limits... reason why i am suggesting and advising, the brazilian group folks, not to use 350 watts transformers while using one transformer to each channel, when the transformer, in this case, will be the power limiting device..voltage will drop and will protect the output against excesses of dissipation.
Dear Andrewlebon... each case is a case in DIY practice electronics, these things are never a cake recipe... and uncle Charlie is ready to study and help you taking a look at your particular case.
Congratulations by your lovely DIY effort, your nice boards, when you're the very first one to produce, using home etched boards, a Supercharged..... i am glad you're from India..an ancient civilization.
8600uf plus 8600uf, or more, to each channel (8 ohms)
20.000uf plus 20.000uf to each channel (4 ohms)
if you decide to use a single supply to feed both channels:
20.000uf plus 20.000uf to feed two channels operating 8 ohms
40.000uf plus 40.000uf to feed two channels operating 4 ohms.
Rail fuses are 3.5A to positive rail, 3.5 amperes to negative rail if you decide to operate the amplifier together 4 ohms speaker.... the speaker fuse will be 7A in this case...or the higher and next comercial value in the sequence.
Rail fuses are 1.8A plus 1.8 amperes amperes, or more if you decide to operate your amplifier together 8 ohms speaker.... the speaker fuse will be 3.5A in this case
200 watts at 4 ohms is aproximatelly 28 volts RMS over the load.....in the reality, dear Andrewlebon, this amplifier can put much more power out...higher voltage can be put out.... 100/200 watts is conservative...may be called minimum power output.
In the reality it can put out 159 watts RMS, over 8 ohms loads, using sinusoidal signal at the input, at the threshold of clipping, distortion smaller than 0,005% THD.... when it will be draining 2A each rail....needing in the real world 10.000uf plus 10.000uf to each channel of filtering condensers.....if your supply is keept stable at 55V plus 55V..... in this moment your fuses may be at the limit if they're not slow blow models...or you will be needing 2 plus 2 amperes fuses to the rails and 4 amperes in series with your speaker...... 55 VDC supplies comes from a 39 plus 39 AC transformer, that after rectification and filtering goes from 39VAC to 55 VDC... in this case, to each channel, over 8 ohms, if powered by a single transformer, will need a 220 watts transformer.... and of course you may need to double it to 440 watts transformer if you decide to feed both channels, at 8 ohms, using a single transformer.... transformer primary fuse is 2 and 4 amperes respectively to these cases.
In the reality it can put out 264 watts RMS, over 4 ohms loads, using sinusoidal signal at the input, at the threshold of clipping, distortion smaller than 0.005% THD... when it will be draining 3.7A each rail...needing in the real world 20.000uf plus 20.000uf to each channel filtering
condensers...if your supply is keept stabe at 55V plus 55VDC.... in this moment your fuses may be at the limit if they're not slow blow models...or you will be needing 4 plus 4 ampere fuses to the rails and 8 ampere in series with the speaker....... 55 VDC supplies comes from a 39 plus 39 AC transformer, will need a 440 watts transformer..... and of course you may
need to double it to 880 watts transformer if you decide to feed both channels, at 8 ohms, using a single transformer.... transformer primary fuse is 4 and 8 amperes respectively to these cases
As transformers use to have voltage drops while the amplifier is operating full power, i decided to make a conservative specification..but you have a lot of headrom in the real life... accepting a little distortion you can put out, easy, 300 watts to each channel, and this will depends how huge are your power transformers.... it is a risky enterprise to use too much strong transformers as you may exceed output transistors dissipation limits... reason why i am suggesting and advising, the brazilian group folks, not to use 350 watts transformers while using one transformer to each channel, when the transformer, in this case, will be the power limiting device..voltage will drop and will protect the output against excesses of dissipation.
Dear Andrewlebon... each case is a case in DIY practice electronics, these things are never a cake recipe... and uncle Charlie is ready to study and help you taking a look at your particular case.
Congratulations by your lovely DIY effort, your nice boards, when you're the very first one to produce, using home etched boards, a Supercharged..... i am glad you're from India..an ancient civilization.
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I have found, dear Bigun, using some condensers here at home
that when we have less than 5000uf to each ampere of consumption, you will be listening mains frequency noises when your power amplifier will be entering cliping, while you will be injecting infrasonic, or subsonic frequencies, sinusoidal tones, into your power amplifier input.
You can use 8 hertz for instance.. because not audible and will let you listen mains noise (hum) clearly, this will drain the specified current, and if supply is not good about filtering..then you will be listening mains frequency when overdriving the system during clipping.
This means, as a result, when we think in our amplifiers dinamically...a dirty sound..because pure tones will be mixed with hum.
I did test with three different brands... they where new condensers...and this was what i have achieved.
This video was my first effort, to try to make the stuff more clear to beginners:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjE_ExOoWWs
People do not use all these capacitances because of cost i think...or forgot to test that.
regards,
Carlos
that when we have less than 5000uf to each ampere of consumption, you will be listening mains frequency noises when your power amplifier will be entering cliping, while you will be injecting infrasonic, or subsonic frequencies, sinusoidal tones, into your power amplifier input.
You can use 8 hertz for instance.. because not audible and will let you listen mains noise (hum) clearly, this will drain the specified current, and if supply is not good about filtering..then you will be listening mains frequency when overdriving the system during clipping.
This means, as a result, when we think in our amplifiers dinamically...a dirty sound..because pure tones will be mixed with hum.
I did test with three different brands... they where new condensers...and this was what i have achieved.
This video was my first effort, to try to make the stuff more clear to beginners:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjE_ExOoWWs
People do not use all these capacitances because of cost i think...or forgot to test that.
regards,
Carlos
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I suppose you need to look at ripple current specs of each individual cap
two very similar looking caps could be completely different
Boards are delivered...blue boards from group buy
I will be giving follow up till July 31, because after that i will go to business inmy site...so...i will be helping people that will continue building my amplifier using their own boards etched at home....the blue boards that will be sold with profit after July will not have follow up and help in this forum..not to use forum to my own business.
The ones have bougth blue boards as DIY, this December, will have my help till July...when i will have to stop this procedure not to confuse customers using forum to have help to build things sold with profit... as this will happens and will start August, first, 2011
All designs developed in this forum, when people will be etching their own boards will have my help...but people using boards provided by me....green, red or blue, will have no more help after July...so.... please, build them till July...because after that will confuse things.... i gonna have boards sold and these ones cannot have this forum as a helping hand....this gonna be my personal, by direct mail help..
Uncle Charlie will continue to be DIY till July 2011, then will change to the crowd, no more project developed as DIY.... i will be reading forum only..helping the ones will be etching my amplifiers and having fun only.
All amplifiers will have new developed designs and new layout using double side boards.... no more layout will be ofered that time, no more schematic or gerbers will be provided too....no more DIY.
So... advertising here will stop December 31, to have 6 monthes without advertising....so..not using forum to advertise my products anymore...because they gonna be pro next year... advertising may exist, but paid advertising.
About youtube, well...there i am free to to whatever i want.... so..demonstrations, tests, recordings will be published there, and links will be provided here if connected to the DIY activity we gonna have here till July 31.
Kinghost site will provide amplifiers only...for sale after july...no more layouts, schematics (will be modified) as boards will be different and double face.
regards,
Carlos
I will be giving follow up till July 31, because after that i will go to business inmy site...so...i will be helping people that will continue building my amplifier using their own boards etched at home....the blue boards that will be sold with profit after July will not have follow up and help in this forum..not to use forum to my own business.
The ones have bougth blue boards as DIY, this December, will have my help till July...when i will have to stop this procedure not to confuse customers using forum to have help to build things sold with profit... as this will happens and will start August, first, 2011
All designs developed in this forum, when people will be etching their own boards will have my help...but people using boards provided by me....green, red or blue, will have no more help after July...so.... please, build them till July...because after that will confuse things.... i gonna have boards sold and these ones cannot have this forum as a helping hand....this gonna be my personal, by direct mail help..
Uncle Charlie will continue to be DIY till July 2011, then will change to the crowd, no more project developed as DIY.... i will be reading forum only..helping the ones will be etching my amplifiers and having fun only.
All amplifiers will have new developed designs and new layout using double side boards.... no more layout will be ofered that time, no more schematic or gerbers will be provided too....no more DIY.
So... advertising here will stop December 31, to have 6 monthes without advertising....so..not using forum to advertise my products anymore...because they gonna be pro next year... advertising may exist, but paid advertising.
About youtube, well...there i am free to to whatever i want.... so..demonstrations, tests, recordings will be published there, and links will be provided here if connected to the DIY activity we gonna have here till July 31.
Kinghost site will provide amplifiers only...for sale after july...no more layouts, schematics (will be modified) as boards will be different and double face.
regards,
Carlos
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Transformers to the Dx Blame MKII Supercharged
The higher power power unit, the MKII Supercharged, while operating from 55V simetrical supplies will have the following needs about transformers, filters and fuses.
Observe also that our new blue board supplies have not rectifiers, you should find an industrial, chassis mount, high current bridge rectifier.
You need a transformer that has 39 plus 39 volts at the secondary:
To use 8 ohms, and one transformer to each channel, then your transformer power should be 180 watts. (10.000 plus 10.000uf/63 volts condensers).. rail fuses 1.8A, power amplifier output fuse is 3.5A... primary fuse should be 1.5A to 120 volts mains and 0.8A to 220 volts mains.
To use 4 ohms and one transformer to each channel, then your transformer power should be 350 watts. (20.000 plus 20.000uf/63 volts condensers). rail fuses are 3.5A, power amplifier output fuse is 7A...primary fuse should be 3.0A to 120 volts mains and 1.5A to 220 volts mains.
If you decide to use a single power transformer and a single supply to feed two channels, then:
To 8 ohms speakers, then use a 350 watts transformer (20.000 plus 20.000uf/ 63V condensers) . Primary fuse to this single transformer should be 3.0A to 120 volts mains and 1.6A to 220V mains
To 4 ohms speakers, then use a 700 watts transformer (40.000 plus 40.000uf/63V). Primary fuse to this single transformer should be 6.0A to 120 volts mains and 3.0 amperes to 220V mains
Transistors should be the pair MJL4281A and MJL4302A
This amplifier can put out much more power...but this is dangerous because we are using only two pairs in the output...so...transformer is the power limiting factor and transformer watts should be the ones suggested.
The use of higher voltage or higher wattage transformer is under your own risk....the output can be damaged.... this amplifier was made to be good and cheap and to save your money...has not too much reserve (only twice) of dissipation and maximum current allowable to the operating voltage,.
regards,
Carlos
The higher power power unit, the MKII Supercharged, while operating from 55V simetrical supplies will have the following needs about transformers, filters and fuses.
Observe also that our new blue board supplies have not rectifiers, you should find an industrial, chassis mount, high current bridge rectifier.
You need a transformer that has 39 plus 39 volts at the secondary:
To use 8 ohms, and one transformer to each channel, then your transformer power should be 180 watts. (10.000 plus 10.000uf/63 volts condensers).. rail fuses 1.8A, power amplifier output fuse is 3.5A... primary fuse should be 1.5A to 120 volts mains and 0.8A to 220 volts mains.
To use 4 ohms and one transformer to each channel, then your transformer power should be 350 watts. (20.000 plus 20.000uf/63 volts condensers). rail fuses are 3.5A, power amplifier output fuse is 7A...primary fuse should be 3.0A to 120 volts mains and 1.5A to 220 volts mains.
If you decide to use a single power transformer and a single supply to feed two channels, then:
To 8 ohms speakers, then use a 350 watts transformer (20.000 plus 20.000uf/ 63V condensers) . Primary fuse to this single transformer should be 3.0A to 120 volts mains and 1.6A to 220V mains
To 4 ohms speakers, then use a 700 watts transformer (40.000 plus 40.000uf/63V). Primary fuse to this single transformer should be 6.0A to 120 volts mains and 3.0 amperes to 220V mains
Transistors should be the pair MJL4281A and MJL4302A
This amplifier can put out much more power...but this is dangerous because we are using only two pairs in the output...so...transformer is the power limiting factor and transformer watts should be the ones suggested.
The use of higher voltage or higher wattage transformer is under your own risk....the output can be damaged.... this amplifier was made to be good and cheap and to save your money...has not too much reserve (only twice) of dissipation and maximum current allowable to the operating voltage,.
regards,
Carlos
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Supply board, blue one, optional values of resistances
This board has not rectifiers in order to reduce size..we are using two supplies and this takes a lot of room... we decided to make it even smaller and people can use heavy duty full wave bridge rectifier attached to the chassis or heatsinks.... this way you gonna have better rectifiers to drain higher currents because of the Supercharged that is more powerfull.
Here some options to resistances... changed in current and of course in values not to operate hot... they are now operating from 300 to 600 miliwatts....so... 1 or 2 watts resistances will operate cool.
Current was calculated to 5 miliamps to leds and a little bit more to the ones in parallel with output filter condenser....of course you can modify depending your supply voltage, your own preferences and needs.
regards,
Carlos
This board has not rectifiers in order to reduce size..we are using two supplies and this takes a lot of room... we decided to make it even smaller and people can use heavy duty full wave bridge rectifier attached to the chassis or heatsinks.... this way you gonna have better rectifiers to drain higher currents because of the Supercharged that is more powerfull.
Here some options to resistances... changed in current and of course in values not to operate hot... they are now operating from 300 to 600 miliwatts....so... 1 or 2 watts resistances will operate cool.
Current was calculated to 5 miliamps to leds and a little bit more to the ones in parallel with output filter condenser....of course you can modify depending your supply voltage, your own preferences and needs.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Here you have size comparison and a Blue board picture
It is more "turquoise" then blue... lovely colour.... well, at least i like it.... i hope you like too...only 12 folks have these boards in the international community.... and 24 in Brasil.
The one have used something alike was Marantz... in the seventies...others have used too..with differente blue tones.
Some folks call this green...others blue....i call Turquesa...in english and french this is called dark Turquoise.
This amplifier and these lovely boards are uncle charlie Christmas gift to forum friends.
Second round it's up to Mitchel...so...if you want to to contact him and post your order in the group buy.... i will give you all my support dear friends..but i repeat..this is up to Mitchel..he decides that.
All Dx Blame models had boards designed by Todd Johnson...lovely board design Taj has made for us... we have modified, first was Metal that made beautifull red boards, then Mitchel has prepared some green boards for a Brazilian group..and this last one, that works to four amplifier models, where also prepared by Mitchel..all them based, inspired, almost copied from Taj lovely work.
Thank you dear Taj...once and once again.
regards,
Carlos
It is more "turquoise" then blue... lovely colour.... well, at least i like it.... i hope you like too...only 12 folks have these boards in the international community.... and 24 in Brasil.
The one have used something alike was Marantz... in the seventies...others have used too..with differente blue tones.
Some folks call this green...others blue....i call Turquesa...in english and french this is called dark Turquoise.
This amplifier and these lovely boards are uncle charlie Christmas gift to forum friends.
Second round it's up to Mitchel...so...if you want to to contact him and post your order in the group buy.... i will give you all my support dear friends..but i repeat..this is up to Mitchel..he decides that.
All Dx Blame models had boards designed by Todd Johnson...lovely board design Taj has made for us... we have modified, first was Metal that made beautifull red boards, then Mitchel has prepared some green boards for a Brazilian group..and this last one, that works to four amplifier models, where also prepared by Mitchel..all them based, inspired, almost copied from Taj lovely work.
Thank you dear Taj...once and once again.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
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They're beautiful looking Turqoise boards Carlos. They look more green on this laptop I am using at the moment but are a nice Turqoise on my nice computer monitor. Made in Brasil with an s where those nice nuts come from. Same colour as a beautiful Brasilian ocean which is where I am dreaming of being at the moment.
Merry Christmas to you Carlos and all other diyaudio members.
Regards
Niss_man
Merry Christmas to you Carlos and all other diyaudio members.
Regards
Niss_man
Will be a pleasure to have you here Niss-man
For you too.... i wish you a Merry Christmas (we have no white Christmas here...it is a hell hot today).
Send uncle Charlie regards to your musical son.
regards,
Carlos
For you too.... i wish you a Merry Christmas (we have no white Christmas here...it is a hell hot today).
Send uncle Charlie regards to your musical son.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
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