The BR pijpes can be placed on the back you need a good coupling with the woofer so place one behind the lower W200 and one behind the upper w200. No damping material between woofer and pipe.
Again if your amplifier doesn't support 4 Ohm load it will blow, and can also blow your new build speakers.
The higher efficiency isn't necessary to blow your ears, but it is needed to reproduce the dynamics of music instrument with out passing the limits of your sound system. The distortion level of the amp will be low also the distortion of the speaker. I know that horn systems are food for real audio freaks. You probably think about it is a worse PA system then as the highest quality sound reproduction.
The poor mans are very nice I like the design to and important 8ohm.
Last edited:
I was just looking at some impedance curves and this one looks like it's above 3 Ohm at all times, (the PMS is going down under 5 Ohms at one point) the only problem that should arise is the amp overheating because of giving 2 times power it is built to. So If I would test it at half the volume it should be ok. Am I right?
Over heating is a problem. It can also be that the power transistors on the end stage can't stand the double amount of current and then will be direct defective. If this doesn't lead to failure the power-supply of the amplifier isn't calculated to give double power.
It is a big risk you want to take for your new loudspeakers, the woofers can be damaged by a defective amplifier. 1/4 power shout be ok but how do you want to check this?
Then you will need a new amp and new woofers.
at one point a impedance of 5 ohm will not lead to failure in normal operation with music. A speaker is 8 ohm that is the resistive load plus the airload and inductance at some points you always will see the resistive value of the driver known as Re.
Or you buy direct hypex plate amplifier two class-D 4Ohm endstages and powersupply .250 euro
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/AS2.100/Manual%20AS2.100%20R3.pdf
AS2.100
The AS2.100 is a plate amp for use in powered speaker systems. Being an active speaker controller, the AS2.100 forms the basis of, for instance, a powerful active two-way monitor. In stereo mode one AS2.100 will power an active master / passive slave pair.
Specifications
GENERAL FEATURES:
- Fully controlled by PC software (included)
- Cross-over settings fully customisable (real-time)
- UcD100OEM (2x) powered
- Stereo analogue input
- Infrared remote control (optional)
- Automatic input scanning
- compact design
- Fully user customised filtering
- Button panel controlled
- Remote controlled
- Filtered sub out
- Link connection master / slave (only with two modules)
- Low signal to noise (-100dB)
APPLICATIONS:
When one module is used:
- Stereo passive filtered system
- Bridged mode for single subwoofer (max 140Watt @ 4 Ohms)
- Mono/mid 2-way setup (tweeter + sub)
When two modules are used:
- 2-way active filtered stereo system
- 2 channel system, both modules in bridge mode for more power
- 3-way active filtered in combination with an active subwoofer (filtered sub out on AS2.100)
All setups are possible with analogue and optional with the digital audio inputs SPDIF and USB.
OPTIONAL FEATURES (with optional digital add-on board):
- S/PDIF input and output
- Sampling rates up to 192kHz
- USB Audio
TECHNICAL DATA:
Supply voltage: 230Volt AC/50Hz +/-10%
Output power LS1: 100W @ 4Ohms
Output power LS2: 100W @ 4Ohms
MECHANICAL DATA:
Dimensions: 115mm x 200mm x 60mm (W x H x D)
Weight: 1.6Kg
Last edited:
That looks very, very nice. I even wanted to ask that stupid question, if I can mirror the box design or If they have to be same... And I have another question right away.. Wood or MDF? Will the added thickness change the sound? What wood if wood?
Don't use massive wood. It works (i.e. expands/contracts) up to the point, where things might get damaged. Also it sucks acoustic-wise (yeah, maybe not in general, but mdf surely doesn't).
You might also use chipboard, or Multiplex which looks nice.
Thickness won't change sound, as long as baffle dimensions and volume remain the same. Dividing cabinets of woofers in 2-woofer designs is a good thing.
Using more stiffeners is also a good thing.
If you are serious, you sandwich the cabinet from mdf - 3mm bitumen (like the stuff you put on roofs) (Edit: make that 4)- something high-densitiy (like tiles). I don't know the exact best way to go, but I could point you to information, but it's all german I think.
rob
Edit: Dampenning of different Materials
I guess the Graphs are international and the table below describes what kind of structure was tested.
You might also use chipboard, or Multiplex which looks nice.
Thickness won't change sound, as long as baffle dimensions and volume remain the same. Dividing cabinets of woofers in 2-woofer designs is a good thing.
Using more stiffeners is also a good thing.
If you are serious, you sandwich the cabinet from mdf - 3mm bitumen (like the stuff you put on roofs) (Edit: make that 4)- something high-densitiy (like tiles). I don't know the exact best way to go, but I could point you to information, but it's all german I think.
rob
Edit: Dampenning of different Materials
I guess the Graphs are international and the table below describes what kind of structure was tested.
Last edited:
You can send a link... I'll try some translators.
BTW I noticed how outdated our visaton site is... the german one has crossovers and plans from 2008 ours has plans from 2000... that's like.. OLD
BTW I noticed how outdated our visaton site is... the german one has crossovers and plans from 2008 ours has plans from 2000... that's like.. OLD
Helmuth, from the picture you show (frequency output), the speaker is on level down to 150Hz (not 40Hz), so your conclusion isn't right also. (Is that the graph you are base on?).
To rephrase my idea again with your main new level value (93dB) for the Menhir:
For a (dB's) difference of ~3dB@30Hz more for Monacor Menhir vs. the Visaton (75dB@30Hz). The bigger difference between the level for Monacor Menhir (78dB@30Hz) and the main level (93dB@frequency range), of ~15dB (~10dB for the Visaton), can it be adjusted with the amp filters, for a good extension on the bass comparing with the Visatons (with the Vib2000/ExperienceV20 has +4/5dB)? Is my conclusion wrong from your point of view? If yes, maybe I don't have all the data or please state.
Last edited:
I do not fully understand what your point is, but I think do understand that you want to say that the V20 has a more flat low end.
Grafics are good to compare loudspeaker systems. In a room this flatness can easy chance with 10dB.
In the grafic you do not see the waterfall behaivour that will be very fine of the menhir. Better then the v20.(this will add to a more three dimensional stereo image like the review from k&t)
Also you can not see the polar diagram of the v20 and the menhir that will be better of the V20 I estimate.
What I want to say here the diagrams are a indication of what is possible not what will be the reality in the livingroom, also is it only a part of the measurements that are important to analyse the quality of a system, so do not point at a few dB I would say.
Some manufacturer say thier loudspeaker can reproduce 30-20kHz I would think -3dB
when you look further it is -10dB. And it is often measured in a reflection free room. The same speaker in the living room will have roomgain of the low frequencies. Then there will become standing waves in the room how make knot and bellies (loud and silent points). To gether you will have in most situations 10-15 dB variation with the grafic shown here.It can be smart to play whit the room gain and raise the low frequency of the bassreflex tube by placing it on the back to become room gain from the wall. Or near the floor this is also possible with the woofer. I would place the tube of the menhir on the back behind the woofer.
v20
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
Birch Plywood 18mm.
when you work precise you can paint it with clear-coat and have a veneer like finish.
I do cover the end of the plate where you see the layers of the plywood with 3mm birch-plywood like veneer perfect matching.
If you like more colour paint it with stain paint.
Birch is a fine wood to work with and has good own damping of resonances and is not extreme heavy to carry.
here a photo of birch plywood back-loaded horn constructions looks good.
I believe Troelgravensen uses also often birch plywood.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Cut four side's 45 degrees and a bottom and top plate who drop in the hole of the beam. Cover the top with a thin layer of birch triplex and you have a perfect looking box.
When you have axes to a router you can cut out the out side of the driver, so the frame drops in to equal level with the baffle. Like the phote of a troelsgravesen baffle.
Last edited:
In fact this is also birch plywood, this can be the end result.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
Another question... do you know any PCB to jack/Cable connector of high quality? It should be very tight. I don't want to solder the internal speaker wires directly to the circuit board of the crossovers, in case I would want to change anything, or something blows up. Also do I need bananas for this? Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
which ones?
Is 4mm copper cable for internal wiring thick enough? solid or hair cable?
which ones?
Is 4mm copper cable for internal wiring thick enough? solid or hair cable?
Don't know about the connectors pcb to cable.
1.5mm² is enough for any wiring.
2.5mm² is more than enough.
4mm² is at the verge of being too much, especially for interal wiring.
If you try soldering that to the tweeter, you will burn the tweeter because the wire transports the heat away quickly and the tweeter will get too much heat. Even for 1.5 mm² you need a powerful iron and good soldering skills to not mess up the plastic that surrounds the terminals.
Get decent 1.5mm² hair cable. You don't need bananas for these terminals. Bananas are a nice thing though 😉
Edit: and since you are talking about possible changes already: Plan in a sperate Crossover compartment which is easily accessible from the outside, e.g. below the box or at the back.
1.5mm² is enough for any wiring.
2.5mm² is more than enough.
4mm² is at the verge of being too much, especially for interal wiring.
If you try soldering that to the tweeter, you will burn the tweeter because the wire transports the heat away quickly and the tweeter will get too much heat. Even for 1.5 mm² you need a powerful iron and good soldering skills to not mess up the plastic that surrounds the terminals.
Get decent 1.5mm² hair cable. You don't need bananas for these terminals. Bananas are a nice thing though 😉
Edit: and since you are talking about possible changes already: Plan in a sperate Crossover compartment which is easily accessible from the outside, e.g. below the box or at the back.
Last edited:
Yes, you can say that, but the Menhir looks away more versatile, like you mentioned before. (And better, from a long lasting speaker point of view.)
)
Speakers, Caps, Resistors, Coils, terminals, tubes, damping material, wood, screws - ordered. what else? I'll make the outer box from 22mm MDF instead of 19mm, and I think I will make the lower part of the back with terminal removable. I need to insulate it so it wont leak. I still need to order internal wire, and when the box will be made I will need a little advice with stuffing 😛 I still need some kind of legs for the tower or something it would stand on... (no carpets)
r0b - I have the skills and Iron so no problem... But if you say that 4mm is overkill then I'll make it 2, at least it will be cheaper. I'll ask the other way, do these terminals support bananas, forks or both? Which is better?
I'm planing to make 2 separate PCB's for each speaker so it's possible to bi-wire/bi-amp. I'm so excited about this... whoo !
r0b - I have the skills and Iron so no problem... But if you say that 4mm is overkill then I'll make it 2, at least it will be cheaper. I'll ask the other way, do these terminals support bananas, forks or both? Which is better?
I'm planing to make 2 separate PCB's for each speaker so it's possible to bi-wire/bi-amp. I'm so excited about this... whoo !
It's not like I've had them in my hands, but these are your standard terminals.
So don't quote me on this, but they will take 4mm bananas coaxially inserted into them ("from the top"), wires clamped between them (standard), and forks between the screwwy-thingy and the base.
What you take is up to your preference. Some people say straight wire is the best. But then you should probably solder the wire directly to the PCB.
I just ordered a whole lot of Bananas from ebay, and will be using these, since it's the most versatile way I think. You won't hear any difference between the three choices, that's for sure.
If you decide to go bananas, you might want to mount the terminals upside down, so the wires exit them in a downward fashion, if you get what I mean.
So don't quote me on this, but they will take 4mm bananas coaxially inserted into them ("from the top"), wires clamped between them (standard), and forks between the screwwy-thingy and the base.
What you take is up to your preference. Some people say straight wire is the best. But then you should probably solder the wire directly to the PCB.
I just ordered a whole lot of Bananas from ebay, and will be using these, since it's the most versatile way I think. You won't hear any difference between the three choices, that's for sure.
If you decide to go bananas, you might want to mount the terminals upside down, so the wires exit them in a downward fashion, if you get what I mean.
For internal wiring massive copper wire 1,5mm^2 is more then enough. The coils are also massive wire and can have 10mtr in it so 1 mtr 1,5mm as internal wiring is no problem.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You want to make a pcb for the filter personally I use a piece of wood and use tyrep to mount the filter parts you can also use glue to fix the parts.
like this.
to connect one can use AMP connectors.
I use also these for connections simple and strong and easy to screw on wood.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.monacor.sk/catalogue-product.phtml?id=1473&Comp=0&Hier=9&MainKtg=52&SubKtg=856
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.monacor.sk/catalogue-product.phtml?id=1473&Comp=0&Hier=9&MainKtg=52&SubKtg=856
http://www.monacor.sk/catalogue-product.phtml?id=5221&Comp=0&Hier=6&MainKtg=63&SubKtg=856
More terminals http://www.monacor.sk/catalogue.phtml?Comp=0&Hier=6&MainKtg=63&SubKtg=856
Last edited:
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.