Will you help a newcomer with his first multi-way project?

pipsk

Member
2010-09-15 11:44 am
Hi, I'm completely new to DIY community. Over past week I have been reading about DIY and HiFi audio all day, and I have decided to build my first speakers.
I really got interested by Zaphaudio and I nearly decided to build one of his 3 way designs, Unfortunately the speakers and the parts are not available in Slovakia or Czech republic where do I come from. I'd like to build a system from parts generally available out there, but I really don't trust our DIY community.
Their ratings of their speakers are like: "I am very pleased with the result. I really like listening to them, I was really shocked when I heard them first time"
Which sounded like crap to me even before I read Zaph's site. No graphs, no measurements.. nothing. I don't want to build a crappy system.

I am moving to a house and my listening room will be L shaped (didn't read anything about that, I don't know if it's a problem or not. It will look like this..

[IMGDEAD]http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2669/roomh.jpg[/IMGDEAD]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I don't have problems with big tower speakers, and I can get all the wood and woodwork done myself, so it's practically free. Same for Circuit boards for crossovers.

I need to buy speakers and crossover materals for +-500Eur (like 620$) and I need to buy it here, I think that's the biggest problem, However I don't really want to mess up so I'd like to build system already done, with all plans for crossover and box or designed by someone that really understands this. I can post links to speakers that are avaliable out there

Do you think you can help me?
 

Erik F

Member
2008-11-11 3:56 pm
Well, I'm sure we can help you...you are wanting to build a proven design that has been measured and known to perform well. That is understandable. If you don't feel comfortable doing your own measurements a kit or working off someone elses design is the best choice. If you want help you need to let people know what types of drivers you can get your hands on. With out that info there is no where to start from.
 

giralfino

Member
2009-02-28 9:20 pm
pipsk,
as you know Slovakia is part of EU and use Euro currency.
This means you can buy in any EU country without having to pay duties, and if you buy from a Euro country you don't lose money on the currency exchange.

The only Zaph tower design that fits your budget is the ZDT3.5, and the drivers are available in Europe. Another well known builder, Troels Gravesen, has some designs that fits your budget and use drivers available in Europe. Look for example Peerless HDS 830875

As to where buy drivers and components, Europe-Audio in Holland has a big variety, but unfortunately they don't answer to mails. I can suggest Audiokit in Italy, they are very helpful, they can even provide inductors with value in between standard ones. (I have no affiliation with them).

Ralf
 

pipsk

Member
2010-09-15 11:44 am
Thank you for your replies. The reason I need the speakers from Slovakia or Czech Republic is that I want them to be my high-school project and I need to document everything It must also be available in our market (don't ask me why). (I did not find any peerless distributors)

Erik F - Adam Vox is pretty expensive and I have pretty large room it's like 400 square feet and I don't really believe that such small speaker like york could deliver good bass (I haven't heard it yet but still.. I don't know)

I like Sonja suggested by r0b because we have few Visaton distributors out there. But I couldn't open the project file.. What program do I need?

Lots of builders out there use TVM mainly because they are very cheap. I don't know about quality but they have graphs on their site for every speaker. Google Translate
(When u click on products in menu on the left first three things from the top Tweeters, Mids , Woofers)
Another popular site is DEXON | REPRODUKTORY A OZVU?OVACÍ TECHNIKA It's in English too.

As I think more about it it will be better that you show me some speakers I could build and I will try to find a distributor for drivers, because I don't know many brands of speakers myself. Anyway thank you for your time.

Also I'd like to ask what would I need to power them, I have 2x20W 8Ohm amp. Will that be enough to power Sonja or any other project until I build something later? Right now it powers pair of old Tesla 1 PF 067 08. They sound good but they slowly fall apart. (they are like 20 years old). And btw is the table / speaker placement in my room a problem to figure out?
 

giralfino

Member
2009-02-28 9:20 pm
The reason I need the speakers from Slovakia or Czech Republic is that I want them to be my high-school project and I need to document everything It must also be available in our market (don't ask me why). (I did not find any peerless distributors)

IMHO, in a global market, looking only for drivers available in a local store is a pure nonsense. For specialized items, like loudspeakers, it is very difficult (or near impossible) to find good quality items in a normal store, you have to buy from a internet store. Every internet store (not only those located in the EU) should be considered "local", because what they sell become available also in your market! As I said, if a store is located in the EU, you have also the advantage of not having to pay duties, so it is truly local.

BTW, looking at the Tymphany site (owner of Peerless and Vifa brands), there is a Czech distributor:
Xavian Electronics s.r.o
Milady Horkov 413
272 01 Kladno
Czech Republic
Tel: +420 777 125 456
Fax: +420 312 687 087
It is also a Scan-Speak distributor.

The Peerless project I suggested has also the advantage of being of high sensitivity, an important thing because of your big room (and small amplifier).

Ralf
 
Are you sure you can't consider the Internet as "local"? Because otherwise it is true your selection will be much more limited.

I think it is very cool you are doing such a project in high school! Good luck!

But, I am not sure of your goals. Do you want super low bass? Compact? (you said towers were OK, if so how big? 3m tall? 1m wide? 2m deep? No, seriously, give us some limits).

As a project, can you build a pre-calculated design? Or do you have to do everything yourself?

And maybe I missed upon re-reading, but what is your amplifier? And 2 speakers, or 5.1?
 
Hi, I'm completely new to DIY community. Over past week I have been reading about DIY and HiFi audio all day, and I have decided to build my first speakers.
I really got interested by Zaphaudio and I nearly decided to build one of his 3 way designs, Unfortunately the speakers and the parts are not available in Slovakia or Czech republic where do I come from. I'd like to build a system from parts generally available out there, but I really don't trust our DIY community.
Their ratings of their speakers are like: "I am very pleased with the result. I really like listening to them, I was really shocked when I heard them first time"
Which sounded like crap to me even before I read Zaph's site. No graphs, no measurements.. nothing. I don't want to build a crappy system.

I am moving to a house and my listening room will be L shaped (didn't read anything about that, I don't know if it's a problem or not. It will look like this..

[IMGDEAD]http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2669/roomh.jpg[/IMGDEAD]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I don't have problems with big tower speakers, and I can get all the wood and woodwork done myself, so it's practically free. Same for Circuit boards for crossovers.

I need to buy speakers and crossover materals for +-500Eur (like 620$) and I need to buy it here, I think that's the biggest problem, However I don't really want to mess up so I'd like to build system already done, with all plans for crossover and box or designed by someone that really understands this. I can post links to speakers that are avaliable out there

Do you think you can help me?


Hi,

your case,and room , screams for an open baffle speaker.Don't say no,before you make a thorough study.I did a quick tour your local retailer site,and looks like it has everything that you need. Have a look at some proven open baffle designs,simple and relatively low cost,within your cost limits)
You will be pleasantly surprised.

B.L
 

pipsk

Member
2010-09-15 11:44 am
I found another distributor Peerless, Visaton, Seas and few others audium / manufactury of loudspeakers, amplifiers, audio accessories, custom made electronics...

Wow giralfino I was browsing Xavian before but I didn't find anything about drivers distribution, I think I will call them and audium for prices... The tower looks good but the box construction is doccumented very poorly.. Also do you see any disadvantages to this 2and1/2 way construction over 3 way? I don't want to have bad bass or mids. (Just asking I'm trying to get most of this experience and most for the buck of course). I could give like 100 more Euro for better quality/price. It's not really strict budget, but I would like to stay around that price.

head_unit - Yeah I know but it will have to do. I can buy from Internet but the company needs to be located somewhere near. If they wanted to call them or something.. I don't really know. They're not very good at English or German. So they won't know I didn't calculate it if I won't tell them, but I will provide credit to the original builder and I will need to measure it and tell something about it like - why I chose this build over that, what is the frequency response, and more of the technical stuff.. It has to be 20 pages of text + graphs.. pictures etc. I think I will need to open them and show the crossover so the commission can tell if I bought em or I really created the thing myself, and what's the quality of it.

Anyway I think I will have one of the most challenging projects this year because everyone is building from kits. Like electronic hours, amplifiers etc.. I wanted to build oil cooled PC with some pretty bad *** oil cooling technique but when I saw the mess oil can do I chose this instead... Slight OT.

About the amp, It's some old Polish "Unitra PW 8010" stereo amp and the speakers are ReproMania.NET | Tesla | Reprosoustavy | 1PF 067 08 35litres - 1L = 1W they are pretty big for desk/table speakers and I think everything I build will take less space so they can really be 2m tall (or taller up to +- ceiling height) 1m wide and 1m deep or so... I don't care as they sound best they can.
 

pipsk

Member
2010-09-15 11:44 am
Hi,

your case,and room , screams for an open baffle speaker.Don't say no,before you make a thorough study.I did a quick tour your local retailer site,and looks like it has everything that you need. Have a look at some proven open baffle designs,simple and relatively low cost,within your cost limits)
You will be pleasantly surprised.

B.L

To be honest I really fear such design... I never heard such thing, I don't know what to expect... I didn't even hear good bass reflex speakers in my life.. I just heard few good closed cabinets and few crappy bass reflexes... So it's really hit or miss for me :/ I don't know where to go to listen to something like that.
 
To be honest I really fear such design... I never heard such thing, I don't know what to expect... I didn't even hear good bass reflex speakers in my life.. I just heard few good closed cabinets and few crappy bass reflexes... So it's really hit or miss for me :/ I don't know where to go to listen to something like that.

Hi,

I know it is very difficult to accept opinions as such.You have to gather written experience,by reading as much as you can.Then buy some speakers and experiment.There is one in a million chance, to get it right in the first time,as with everything.Just be prepared to fail and fail hard.
As far as open baffle goes,it is easier to build one,just a plain sheet of MDF or something like that,will do,(enclosurewise).

The other way is to try a tested working design,that you will find in here,just learn how to put your input in case of the result isn't up to your expectations

B.L.
 

pipsk

Member
2010-09-15 11:44 am
Hi,

I know it is very difficult to accept opinions as such.You have to gather written experience,by reading as much as you can.Then buy some speakers and experiment.There is one in a million chance, to get it right in the first time,as with everything.Just be prepared to fail and fail hard.
As far as open baffle goes,it is easier to build one,just a plain sheet of MDF or something like that,will do,(enclosurewise).

The other way is to try a tested working design,that you will find in here,just learn how to put your input in case of the result isn't up to your expectations

B.L.

Can you suggest anything in my price range? I really don't want to fail. I didn't decide yet which way to go.. I have good looking Boxsim Projektdatenbank Sonja
with project file I can't open and PEERLESS-NOMEX-164 .. looks good too but I don't see any measures in the cabinet interior holes...
Recently I found Poor Man' this... but I have no idea what to build..
 

tinitus

Ex-Moderator R.I.P.
2005-11-24 1:47 am
The Poor Man's Straad is an excellent design.....but not an easy build by far.

might work ok without the complicated curved baffles

Im surpriced its not been tested :confused: or maybe it has
 

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r0b

Member
2009-09-13 7:41 pm
To open the Project-File you'll need Boxsim First link to the right of "Links/Downloads".
That's what the page is for, it's a database of Projects for the Boxsim simulation Programm. However all these projects were actually built, and most of them measured, so not just a bunch of simulations never tested.
All the stuff is German though, so the programm might be hard to understand.
But what you input is rather simple:
How many speakers
how many amps
baffle geometry and driver positions
enclosure type and size (Edit: and tuning of course in case of BR etc.)
and of course Crossover.

Greets

rob
 
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Can you suggest anything in my price range? I really don't want to fail. I didn't decide yet which way to go.. I have good looking Boxsim Projektdatenbank Sonja
with project file I can't open and PEERLESS-NOMEX-164 .. looks good too but I don't see any measures in the cabinet interior holes...
Recently I found Poor Man' this... but I have no idea what to build..


Hi,

one of the most easiest and lower cost designs,is described in the following:

Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design


look for the Dipole two way design.

The main interest is in the woofer response manipulation,in order to get good low bass.From there on ,you can use any combination that you like,for the midrange and tweeter units.

Mr Martin's design and guidance,is flawless,and with a little care by you,it is very EASY to build,while you are taken into the realm of acoustic theory and exotic speaker design. And it is dirty low cost ,for the quality that you'll get.

Nao and Orion are more elaborate designs and will require tons of input and money.

Just try to find what suits your needs and for the time being don't look any further(There's always tomorrow)


B/L
 
Do you want to design or to build?

If you want to design then you need to invest in measurement tools. Not expensive but would take some $$ out of your budget.

If you want to build have a look at this: Pluto introduction

- It costs reasonable
- It's active (better than passive)
- Easy to build
- Well designed, in fact by one of the most respected audio engineer in existence.
 
Hi pipsk,

When I read your reactions about what systems you like and cost effective. I have a idea.

I can buy expensive stuff but I personally like to build a design with normal driver and combine them the right way.

What would you think of a closed loudspeaker With a TVM acoutics 12". A really cool aluminium frame coated paper cone woofer.
50Liter box closed with arn312. I attached a simulation. That shout give a clean punchy bass.

Mid speaker a arx130-63-6 also nice as mid woofer in a two way design. If this isnt good enough peerless has nice price 4" middrivers. Or tanband.


And a quality tweeter like a budget morel cat308 they are sold as matched pair to prevent difference in left and right channel. And these morel tweeters have good off axes up to 15kHz important for a bright sound.
Personally I have good experience with monacor dt300 very nice and cheep. Used in this project of mine.http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/137036-big-bandpass-fatboy-8.html[IMGDEAD]https://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd181/calilm3/DSC00309.jpg[/IMGDEAD]

I have attached a design idea to place the 12"at the side of the enclosure.

To build the prefessional you shout have to use freeware as arta or holmresponse and your pc soundcard to measure the loudspeaker. And then improve the crossover.

If this is to complicated you will end up copying a design.

Here some tips:
Nice cheep woofers and tweeters you can buy at Mivoc. They also got low price speaker kits.
speaker trade - mivoc
And another cheep manufacturer with great drivers is Dayton.

Tangband kits Lautsprecher Selbstbau by blue planet acoustic
 

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