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Nice zaph design with scan speak and vifa drivers. The tweeter is inexpensive and high qaulity.
Zaph|Audio - ZD5 - Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and Vifa XT25
Zaph|Audio - ZD5 - Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and Vifa XT25
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Thank you guys.. I have to decide until Monday, so I will be going through all of your links until then and then decide.
hello pipsk,
why not designing your own system from scratch using inexpensive widely available Visaton and/or Monacor drivers ?
Are you aware of the fact that the Lipshitz-Vanderkooy crossovers (described at the AES) have not been implemented yet in commercial and DIY systems ? Are you aware of the fact that SynthMaker can be used as digital crossover ? Are you aware of the fact that 99,9% loudspeakers crossovers like Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley do introduce massive phase errors, like delivering the high frequency impacts tens of milliseconds before the low frequencies basement. The group propagation time of the reconstructed wave is far from constant with frequency !
Do you know the difference between a zero inter-phase shift, and a zero overall phase shift ?
A Linkwitz-Riley crossover has the great advantage of a zero inter-phase shift (hence a smooth polar radiation diagram), but has the great disadvantage of a non zero reconstructed phase shift (hence square wave distorted).
A 1st order crossover has the great disadvantage of a non zero inter-phase shift (hence an ugly polar radiation diagram unless in d'Appolito configuration), but has the great advantage of a zero reconstructed phase shift (hence square wave not distorted).
A Lipshitz-Vanderkooy crossover with a Bessel kernel has the great advantage of a nearly zero inter-phase shift (hence a smooth polar radiation diagram), and has the great advantage of a zero reconstructed phase shift (hence square wave non distorted).
Outstanding results can be achieved with conventional drivers and enclosures, when assorted to ultra-modern filters taking great care of the phase.
For the bass range (35Hz-120Hz) I would recommend a 3-chamber 8th order bandpass using two Monacor SP100/8 inside. Use Subsim fom Isaac MCN to design it. When I mean 35Hz, I really mean 35Hz. Not 35Hz at -10 dB or 35Hz at -6dB. This is 35Hz at -3dB. Truly amazing. The whole listening room really "connects" on the deep bass.
For the medium range (120 Hz-3,500 Hz) I would recommend a closed-box using two quality 10cm drivers like Monacor MS-100CHQ or MSH-115 or MSH-116/4.
For the high range (3,500 Hz-17,000 Hz) I would recommend a miniature tweeter like Visaton CP13 (with the grill removed) or MONACOR DT-284, DT-28N, DT-25N, DT-25TI.
The medium+tweeter shall be arranged a d'Appolito MTM configuration.
You get 35 Hz to 17,000 Hz in a corridor of 3dB. Before digital equalization.
You can start with a very simple filtering scheme.
Use an analog electronic crossover 2nd order lowpass and 2nd order highpass at 120 Hz to separate the bass unit and the satellite. Later on you may go for a digital Lipshitz-Vanderkooy (delay type) crossover for improving the phase. SynthMaker can be used for implementing such digital crossover.
Use a passive crossover 1st order between the 10cm drivers and the tweeter : a self in series with the 10 cm driver, and a capacitor in series with the tweeter. This is fine for moderate domestic listening levels. However, if you throw 50 volt AC at 750 Hz on the 1st-order highpass filtered tweeter, he may get an elongation problem. This is why I warn you about the listening levels.
Very important : you need to time-align the tweeter with the 10 cm drivers. You can do the time alignment by slightly recessing the tweeter inside the enclosure (this may induce directivity issues). You also can do the time alignment by adding a small LC analog delay line in the tweeter feed.
Later on you may go for a digital delay using SynthMaker, assorted to the kind of crossover you may want between the 10 cm driver and the tweeter : 1st order or Lipshitz-Vanderkooy.
Another crossover desserving respect is the native 3-way 2nd order. Do you know this structure ? A native 3-way 2nd order crossover has some inter-phase shift (hence needing a d'Appolito configuration), but has the great advantage of a zero reconstructed phase shift (hence square wave undistorted). This got pioneered by Christensen at Bang & Olufsen with the B&O S45 and the B&O MT70 enclosures. The medium unit is a "filler" unit between a 2nd order low pass and a 2nd order high pass. Mathematically, it is a jewel.
Unfortunately it is not compatible with a 3-chamber 8th order bandpass for the bass range. You need a 35 Hz to 3,500 Hz bass unit, kind of Bass-Reflex or Closed Box. You'll need one or two expensive bass driver with 20 cm diameter, no more than 20 cm otherwise the 3,500 Hz response will be degraded. For getting the 3 sources virtually coincidents, you'll end up with a WMTMW configuration. With the Bass-Reflex port somewhere inbetween.
The B&O S45 was a 3 loudspeakers closed-box enclosure, implementing the native 3-way 2nd order Christensen crossover. The MT70 was a kind of S45 incorporating a kind of subwoofer, however in closed box form. In 2010, thirty five years later, you may use a 3-chamber 8th order bandpass using two Monacor SP100/8 inside, as subwoofer. You may then use a digital crossover (SynthMaker) at 120 Hz, trying to achieve a Lipshitz-Vanderkooy crossover at 120 Hz between the subwoofer and the native 3-way 2nd order Christensen arrangement. You'll need to compensate for the intrinsic gain & phase responses from the individual units. Don't worry about the 35 Hz to 120 Hz source not being virtually coincidents with the other sources. The 120 Hz wavelenght is far longer than the mechannical offset.
Build the various systems using the same inexpensive drivers.
If you need more info or simulations using LTspiceIV, just ask.
Kind regards,
Steph
why not designing your own system from scratch using inexpensive widely available Visaton and/or Monacor drivers ?
Are you aware of the fact that the Lipshitz-Vanderkooy crossovers (described at the AES) have not been implemented yet in commercial and DIY systems ? Are you aware of the fact that SynthMaker can be used as digital crossover ? Are you aware of the fact that 99,9% loudspeakers crossovers like Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley do introduce massive phase errors, like delivering the high frequency impacts tens of milliseconds before the low frequencies basement. The group propagation time of the reconstructed wave is far from constant with frequency !
Do you know the difference between a zero inter-phase shift, and a zero overall phase shift ?
A Linkwitz-Riley crossover has the great advantage of a zero inter-phase shift (hence a smooth polar radiation diagram), but has the great disadvantage of a non zero reconstructed phase shift (hence square wave distorted).
A 1st order crossover has the great disadvantage of a non zero inter-phase shift (hence an ugly polar radiation diagram unless in d'Appolito configuration), but has the great advantage of a zero reconstructed phase shift (hence square wave not distorted).
A Lipshitz-Vanderkooy crossover with a Bessel kernel has the great advantage of a nearly zero inter-phase shift (hence a smooth polar radiation diagram), and has the great advantage of a zero reconstructed phase shift (hence square wave non distorted).
Outstanding results can be achieved with conventional drivers and enclosures, when assorted to ultra-modern filters taking great care of the phase.
For the bass range (35Hz-120Hz) I would recommend a 3-chamber 8th order bandpass using two Monacor SP100/8 inside. Use Subsim fom Isaac MCN to design it. When I mean 35Hz, I really mean 35Hz. Not 35Hz at -10 dB or 35Hz at -6dB. This is 35Hz at -3dB. Truly amazing. The whole listening room really "connects" on the deep bass.
For the medium range (120 Hz-3,500 Hz) I would recommend a closed-box using two quality 10cm drivers like Monacor MS-100CHQ or MSH-115 or MSH-116/4.
For the high range (3,500 Hz-17,000 Hz) I would recommend a miniature tweeter like Visaton CP13 (with the grill removed) or MONACOR DT-284, DT-28N, DT-25N, DT-25TI.
The medium+tweeter shall be arranged a d'Appolito MTM configuration.
You get 35 Hz to 17,000 Hz in a corridor of 3dB. Before digital equalization.
You can start with a very simple filtering scheme.
Use an analog electronic crossover 2nd order lowpass and 2nd order highpass at 120 Hz to separate the bass unit and the satellite. Later on you may go for a digital Lipshitz-Vanderkooy (delay type) crossover for improving the phase. SynthMaker can be used for implementing such digital crossover.
Use a passive crossover 1st order between the 10cm drivers and the tweeter : a self in series with the 10 cm driver, and a capacitor in series with the tweeter. This is fine for moderate domestic listening levels. However, if you throw 50 volt AC at 750 Hz on the 1st-order highpass filtered tweeter, he may get an elongation problem. This is why I warn you about the listening levels.
Very important : you need to time-align the tweeter with the 10 cm drivers. You can do the time alignment by slightly recessing the tweeter inside the enclosure (this may induce directivity issues). You also can do the time alignment by adding a small LC analog delay line in the tweeter feed.
Later on you may go for a digital delay using SynthMaker, assorted to the kind of crossover you may want between the 10 cm driver and the tweeter : 1st order or Lipshitz-Vanderkooy.
Another crossover desserving respect is the native 3-way 2nd order. Do you know this structure ? A native 3-way 2nd order crossover has some inter-phase shift (hence needing a d'Appolito configuration), but has the great advantage of a zero reconstructed phase shift (hence square wave undistorted). This got pioneered by Christensen at Bang & Olufsen with the B&O S45 and the B&O MT70 enclosures. The medium unit is a "filler" unit between a 2nd order low pass and a 2nd order high pass. Mathematically, it is a jewel.
Unfortunately it is not compatible with a 3-chamber 8th order bandpass for the bass range. You need a 35 Hz to 3,500 Hz bass unit, kind of Bass-Reflex or Closed Box. You'll need one or two expensive bass driver with 20 cm diameter, no more than 20 cm otherwise the 3,500 Hz response will be degraded. For getting the 3 sources virtually coincidents, you'll end up with a WMTMW configuration. With the Bass-Reflex port somewhere inbetween.
The B&O S45 was a 3 loudspeakers closed-box enclosure, implementing the native 3-way 2nd order Christensen crossover. The MT70 was a kind of S45 incorporating a kind of subwoofer, however in closed box form. In 2010, thirty five years later, you may use a 3-chamber 8th order bandpass using two Monacor SP100/8 inside, as subwoofer. You may then use a digital crossover (SynthMaker) at 120 Hz, trying to achieve a Lipshitz-Vanderkooy crossover at 120 Hz between the subwoofer and the native 3-way 2nd order Christensen arrangement. You'll need to compensate for the intrinsic gain & phase responses from the individual units. Don't worry about the 35 Hz to 120 Hz source not being virtually coincidents with the other sources. The 120 Hz wavelenght is far longer than the mechannical offset.
Build the various systems using the same inexpensive drivers.
If you need more info or simulations using LTspiceIV, just ask.
Kind regards,
Steph
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http://audiolab.uwaterloo.ca/stan.htm - Stanley Lipshitz
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/4598.pdf jan 1983 - seminal article - need to read this first - perfect reconstructed phase
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/4462.pdf march 1985 - some sort of simplification - no delay line needed anymore
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/11522.pdf may 1985 - read this as general culture
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/5237.pdf nov 1986 - many times this is confused with the seminal article ! This structure doesn't provide a perfect reconstructed phase - Revox may have used it on some active monitor series - Elektor published a three way crossover using this principle.
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/8170.pdf sept 1999 - another approach for ensuring a perfect reconstructed phase
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/4598.pdf jan 1983 - seminal article - need to read this first - perfect reconstructed phase
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/4462.pdf march 1985 - some sort of simplification - no delay line needed anymore
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/11522.pdf may 1985 - read this as general culture
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/5237.pdf nov 1986 - many times this is confused with the seminal article ! This structure doesn't provide a perfect reconstructed phase - Revox may have used it on some active monitor series - Elektor published a three way crossover using this principle.
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/8170.pdf sept 1999 - another approach for ensuring a perfect reconstructed phase
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sorry,
I just made a mistake about Christensen.
Actually, it is Erik Baekgaard at Bang & Olufsen who pioneered the medium unit as "filler" unit between a 2nd order lowpass and a 2nd order highpass. Without cheating with the phase of the tweeter.
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/2480.pdf march 1975 - seminal article (perfect reconstructed phase)
Then, quite recently, came Christensen :
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/13666.pdf jan 2006 - sort of Baekgaard evolution (but the reconstructed phase is not perfect)
Jean-Marc Plantefève explains the Erik Baekgaard approach and the René Christensen approach here :
http://jm.plantefeve.pagesperso-orange.fr/baekgaard.html
If you are interested in digital crossovers, as general theme :
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/6623.pdf march 1993 - seminal article
You can implement this in 5 minutes nowadays using SynthMaker.
I just made a mistake about Christensen.
Actually, it is Erik Baekgaard at Bang & Olufsen who pioneered the medium unit as "filler" unit between a 2nd order lowpass and a 2nd order highpass. Without cheating with the phase of the tweeter.
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/2480.pdf march 1975 - seminal article (perfect reconstructed phase)
Then, quite recently, came Christensen :
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/13666.pdf jan 2006 - sort of Baekgaard evolution (but the reconstructed phase is not perfect)
Jean-Marc Plantefève explains the Erik Baekgaard approach and the René Christensen approach here :
http://jm.plantefeve.pagesperso-orange.fr/baekgaard.html
If you are interested in digital crossovers, as general theme :
http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20100918/6623.pdf march 1993 - seminal article
You can implement this in 5 minutes nowadays using SynthMaker.
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the Subwoofer Simulator from Isaac MCN is here
http://users.on.net/~isaacmcn/audio/subsim/newsubsim.htm
This software supports the 3-chamber 8th order bandpass configuration. There are not many softwares supporting this.
This software supports the 2-chamber 4th order bandpass configuration.
Plus all the other conventional configurations like Bass-Reflex and Closed-Box.
http://users.on.net/~isaacmcn/audio/subsim/newsubsim.htm
This software supports the 3-chamber 8th order bandpass configuration. There are not many softwares supporting this.
This software supports the 2-chamber 4th order bandpass configuration.
Plus all the other conventional configurations like Bass-Reflex and Closed-Box.
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Tvm has also a nice midrange unit with attached closed volume, this makes it more simpel and cheaper to build the multi way.
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Like most people here I advise first order filters cost effective and sound better.
TVM Acoustics, Valašské Meziøíèí - Midranges
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TVM Acoustics, Valašské Meziøíèí - Woofers
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MONACOR INTERNATIONAL:New products
Attachments
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TVM acoutics slovakia
BS AcousticDetail produktu
BS AcousticDetail produktu
Monacor slovakia
DT-300 16 euro! for this great driver.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
SPH-250KE a keflar cone speaker good for closed loudspeakers.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
This makes a nice combination with the sph-135ke
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
You can buy a folders of Monacor with loudspeaker designs of them that may be will be easier. They have a lot of drivers with good price performance.
To simulate a enclosure you can use free ware as Winisdpro. LinearTeam
BS AcousticDetail produktu
BS AcousticDetail produktu
Monacor slovakia
DT-300 16 euro! for this great driver.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
SPH-250KE a keflar cone speaker good for closed loudspeakers.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
This makes a nice combination with the sph-135ke
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
You can buy a folders of Monacor with loudspeaker designs of them that may be will be easier. They have a lot of drivers with good price performance.
To simulate a enclosure you can use free ware as Winisdpro. LinearTeam
Attachments
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Design idea's. Monacor.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
Visit the visaton site with complete designs.
WWW.VISATON.BIZ
Visaton - Domácí - Hi-Fi
Enough designs for free on the web.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
Visit the visaton site with complete designs.
WWW.VISATON.BIZ
Visaton - Domácí - Hi-Fi
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Enough designs for free on the web.
This actually looks very good considering Visaton is widely available in my country... It's like 250Eur for the drivers... wow! That looks very promising. I have to sign the project on Monday so I need to decide by that time. BTW will my 2x20W 8ohm stereo amp move those things?
Hi pipsk,
20W is enough to listen music loud. But this visaton design is 4 Ohm this will blow the end stage of your amp if the design isn't intended to drive 4 Ohm.
Do not under estimate the cross over that is the key thing to get a good result, use MKT capasitors and low resistance coils.
A even beter and 8 Ohm (high end)design of visaton.http://www.visaton.sk/obrazky/fotky/velke/vib2000gf.jpg
86dB /wmtr with 20Wamp makes a maximum sound pressure of 99dB on 1 mtr.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Nice modern glass-fiber technology driver.
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And proven technology soft-dome.
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And with two way concept you can buy quality drivers and filter parts. Only the efficiency is average 86dB/wmtr max with 20W 99dB.
Because you have a 20W amp I advise to make a two way bassreflex with horn more then enough soundpressure. But that is a side effect, the sound off such a system is very accurate and makes depht in the sound image you hear. Better then you can hear from normal hifi stuff.
I started my audio hobby 26 years ago and did try multy way but my last two projects are two way concepts with horn for mid/high range.
When you ask me what would be my advise and personal taste after many years spending on my audio hobby.
I advise to build the Monacor Menhir. tight bass an impulse correct high frequency in this design.
😎
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
reduce the length of the mbr-100 with 4 cm so it becomes 74mm long
Reproduktory, zvuk, zosil?ova?e, mikrofóny, mix pulty, 100V, DJ - Monacor
Technical data
- impedance: 8 Ohm
- rated SPL (2.83V/1m): 93 dB
- size (HxWxD): 105 x 36,8 x 45 cm
- frequency range (-8dB): 31 - > 20000 Hz
- crossover frequency: 2000 Hz
- speaker type: bass reflex
Max sound pressure with 20W 106dB 1mtr that will shake your apartment with 20W on 8Ohm.
This is a system that makes my hart beat faster. Here a discreption of the sound.
part list with bassreflex tube and lenght.
- SP-12A/302PA mid / bass driver
- Celestion CDX1-1430 tweeter
- MRH-83 tweeter horn
- MHA-35 screw adapter
- ST-410GM terminal
- ST-955GM terminal
- BP-500G binding posts
- MBR-100 bass reflex tube
(shortened to 4 cm)
- MBR-100 bass reflex tube
- 2 mats nap foam MDM-60
- 6 x damping wool MDM-3
- 1 x heavy foam MDM-30
- rubber feet HF10
- sealing tape MDM-5
- 8 x PAN 4x20 screws
- 8 x MZF-8605 screws
with nut
- 8 x Allen wood screws 4x16mm (MZF-8614)
- 3m cable 2x2.5 mm2
- building instruction
(the Monacor Loudspeaker DIY Magazine) - the crossover components*) to be mounted on wood:
- 1.0 mH air core coil / 1.4 mm *)
- 0.33 mH air core coil / 1.4 mm *)
- 0.39 mH air core coil / 1 mm
- 1.8 mH air core coil / 1.4 mm *)
- 0.27 mH air core coil / 1 mm
- 2 x 22 uF MKP capacitors / 400V *)
- 3.3 uF capacitor / 400V
- 15 uF MKP capacitor / 400V
- 3.9 uF MKP capacitor / 400V
- 8.2 uF MKP capacitor / 400V
- 68 uF MKP capacitor / 400V *)
- 10 Ohm resistor, 20W
- 3.9 Ohm resistor, 20W
- 8.2 Ohm resistor, 20W
- 6.8 Ohm resistor, 20W
- 4 x 15 Ohm resistors, 20W
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simulation in winisdpro.
When this design is blowing your budget I advise to use bipolar capasitors to reduce costs. Later you improve that components when you want and can spent more money on it.
When this design is blowing your budget I advise to use bipolar capasitors to reduce costs. Later you improve that components when you want and can spent more money on it.
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To explain what efficiency means here some figure's
With the Visaton VIB2000 and 20 watts the ouput is 99dB
With the Monacor Menhir your maximum sound pressure is 106dB.
The power that is needed to play with the VIB2000 up to 106 is to increase the sound pressure with another 7dB. The amplifier power needed would be 100W.
So the Menhir plays as loud with 20W as the VIB2000 does with 100W amp.
With the Visaton VIB2000 and 20 watts the ouput is 99dB
With the Monacor Menhir your maximum sound pressure is 106dB.
The power that is needed to play with the VIB2000 up to 106 is to increase the sound pressure with another 7dB. The amplifier power needed would be 100W.
So the Menhir plays as loud with 20W as the VIB2000 does with 100W amp.
Why do designs like Menhir sound good?
The high efficiency drivers have very low distortion on normal living room level better than a lot of so called high end drivers.
Sound reproduction quality is about energy storage in the system, you do not want to store energy but convert electrical energy in sound-pressure. That is a qaulity of PA drivers.
This low energy storage leads to good impulse behaivour better detail/depth and soundpressure.
Because the is only 1 XO point there is less interference involved in the sound image. Result good placement of individual artists in the stereo image.
By the way the menhir design you can find in the monacor speaker building magazine.
http://www.monacor.sk/catalogue-product.phtml?id=7205&Comp=0&Hier=6&MainKtg=75&SubKtg=584
The high efficiency drivers have very low distortion on normal living room level better than a lot of so called high end drivers.
Sound reproduction quality is about energy storage in the system, you do not want to store energy but convert electrical energy in sound-pressure. That is a qaulity of PA drivers.
This low energy storage leads to good impulse behaivour better detail/depth and soundpressure.
Because the is only 1 XO point there is less interference involved in the sound image. Result good placement of individual artists in the stereo image.
By the way the menhir design you can find in the monacor speaker building magazine.
http://www.monacor.sk/catalogue-product.phtml?id=7205&Comp=0&Hier=6&MainKtg=75&SubKtg=584
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Check, also, for a (dB's) difference of ~10dB@30Hz more for Monacor Menhir vs. the Visaton (75dB@30Hz). The bigger difference between the level for Monacor Menhir (85dB@30Hz) and the main level (100dB@frequency range), of ~15dB (~10dB for the Visaton), can be balanced with the filters (bass/loudness/treble) on the amp, I expect. Any ideas?
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Your conclusion isn't right inductor. the evarage soundpresure of the monacor woofer is reduce to 93dB/1wmtr with the filter. So the speaker is on level down to 40Hz. And not producing 99dB as you stated.
With placement of the basreflex tube on the back of the box you can raise the output level at 30Hz-40Hz with the room gain of the back wall.
The bas-reflex tuning stretches the low end in this design like I did simulate in winisd. The raise of the sound presure at higher frequencies is suppressed with the filter lay out in the Menhir design to 93dB average. See L4, C7,R5-8. That is what many beginners do not see what can be done with a smart filter lay out.
@ PIPSK to reduce costs you can make a bassreflex channel from wood only thing you have to do is to make it the same length en it must have the same crosssection area like the 99mm round tube=77cm^2
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Hi pipsk,
Maybe it is easy to find old military stock paper in oil capacitors for a low price in slovakia, this to reduce costs. Over here there a hot item by high end en tube freaks. And are quit expensive.
They prefer the sound of the paper in oil types.
Maybe it is easy to find old military stock paper in oil capacitors for a low price in slovakia, this to reduce costs. Over here there a hot item by high end en tube freaks. And are quit expensive.
They prefer the sound of the paper in oil types.
Here to compare a similar system of JBL price 18000 euro.
So I think you will save at least 17000 euro with this project. 😉
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So I think you will save at least 17000 euro with this project. 😉
I had the amp connected to two small 4Ohm supermarket speakers, they were originally in small vented box but I sealed the bass reflex tube because they were "farting" at 4 - 5/10 volume. Now they play ok at 6-7.5/10... I normally don't turn the volume past 7.5 cause the sound gets dull and distorted past that point even on my big 8Ohm speakers but I don't know if it's the limit of the amp or the speakers... The amp get's hot after few minutes but It's stable and ok to touch so it could be max 45-50C. Anyway I really don't need that sort of volume, It would blow my ears in few minutes.. I don't really know how much power it sends at that point because it sounds like It's exponentially rising on the higher end. do you think it could power those visaton speakers to any normal listening levels? Oh yeah and the end stage are transistors... I don't know if this helps.
I found Experience V20 design without the two bass reflex ports on the front side. http://www.upgrade-sound.com/downloads/Project_Experience_V20.pdf how would that affect the sound? Less bass? I'm still considering Poor Man' but I really don't know where would I place them in my room (see picture on the first page.) I have more options with Experiences
I found Experience V20 design without the two bass reflex ports on the front side. http://www.upgrade-sound.com/downloads/Project_Experience_V20.pdf how would that affect the sound? Less bass? I'm still considering Poor Man' but I really don't know where would I place them in my room (see picture on the first page.) I have more options with Experiences
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