Well, the difference to me personally might be that George designed his product BEFORE coming here
Others might "collect" info here before they design their product
I dont say its wrong, only that there may be certain aspects to it
We have good people among those too
Some of them try to give some back to the forum, whenever possible
Its an open minded forum, and such things happens, like it or not
Nothings perfect and theres compromises in everything we do
But it doesnt seem right to point fingers at George, that would be really strange
Others might "collect" info here before they design their product
I dont say its wrong, only that there may be certain aspects to it
We have good people among those too
Some of them try to give some back to the forum, whenever possible
Its an open minded forum, and such things happens, like it or not
Nothings perfect and theres compromises in everything we do
But it doesnt seem right to point fingers at George, that would be really strange
I start to get lost here - does this whole rant mean there will be no more use of optical resistors for volume control in audio unless it's George's. I've thought yesterday it's only a name issue... if it's a circuit thing than it's only law that can judge, in the very straightforward way - whoever holds the patent is right.
What about transformers? Autoformers? Resistors? Whom shall we ask for that if we are implementing them? Where does the "open source" policy starts in audio? Everything we are talking about here has someone who invented it. What if someone knocks on my door and tells me to switch my 300b amp because he invented interstage transformer or AC filament circuits (actually Guido Tent may be the one...
)?
Personally I believe it would be more interesting to hear if any of other designers/manufacturers of the LDR attenuators (accused here) have something new to say. Something that would be considered as an important improvement of the original "Lightspeed" idea no matter how it's called. I think that's where the future of this concept is.
How does the PSM LS sound compared to the Lightspeed mk 2 (which is excellent but not perfect)? What kind of improvement the new solutions explained in the Myth guy's post brought? (actually that was the most interesting thing but everyone seem to be busy with frying him on the electric chair)
Respect to George for promoting the LS concept, we all know who he is. Hats off. But things move on. You can't stop competition. If you are into business, you can only be better and more competitive. Live and let live.
What about transformers? Autoformers? Resistors? Whom shall we ask for that if we are implementing them? Where does the "open source" policy starts in audio? Everything we are talking about here has someone who invented it. What if someone knocks on my door and tells me to switch my 300b amp because he invented interstage transformer or AC filament circuits (actually Guido Tent may be the one...
)?Personally I believe it would be more interesting to hear if any of other designers/manufacturers of the LDR attenuators (accused here) have something new to say. Something that would be considered as an important improvement of the original "Lightspeed" idea no matter how it's called. I think that's where the future of this concept is.
How does the PSM LS sound compared to the Lightspeed mk 2 (which is excellent but not perfect)? What kind of improvement the new solutions explained in the Myth guy's post brought? (actually that was the most interesting thing but everyone seem to be busy with frying him on the electric chair)
Respect to George for promoting the LS concept, we all know who he is. Hats off. But things move on. You can't stop competition. If you are into business, you can only be better and more competitive. Live and let live.
Unfortunately this is the very nub of the matter, from the get-go something like the "myth" was always going to happen. FWIW, the fella from myth said he would pull all references to lightspeed from his product and site. He seemed fair in his responses. Also, in fairness to him, while he did take the knowledge from this thread/George, he also went and made his own thing of it, with DAC control, no need for matching, buffers, etc etc. From what I can see his is a derivative or development of the LS, not like what you see from chinese companies on ebay that exactly copy something and sell it as a clone.
Having said all that, some credit on his work to George would have gone a long way. I don't see any favourable resolution to this either. Anyone is entitled to buy LDRs and use them as they wish, just like an ordinary resistor - theres no stopping that.
Very sorry to see this happen and to see George as obviously upset as he is.
The thing is, and I really don't mean to upset you further George, the thing that has held back people from using LDRs has been the matching. I can recall posts throughout this thread where schemes have been proposed for overcoming this problem. The "myth" was inevitable, its just unfair that George didn't do it first.
Fran
We first have to be sure if there is really a problem. Without going into legal matters:
1. The idea of using a ldr-light combination as volume control is old. In the sixties Philips was for instance using this on his Philicorda electronic organ. Optocouplers were not invented yet at that time. Is Philips angry or sad that George is using the same principles ?
2. Can the person who was the first with the idea of using an optocoupler for this purpose forbid other people to use this idea (commercial or diy) ? I do not think so. And who was the first ?
For instance: Is the person who was the first with putting a LED under a tube instead of a resistor angry on me if I use this idea on more than one amp ? I did not notice this till now.
3. The person who was called scum has used a microprocessor in his optic volume control. Am I scum too if I use this idea in my own design ? Come one, get real.
4. Is there something unique in the circuit in which the optocouplers are used ? Was there a big research and development effort neccessary to develop the circuit ? Let the experts speak.
I don't think that person was called scum. But rather people who used George's idea and sell it using the term Lightspeed.
Yes this is the problem for me, I don't have a problem with Myth making it, it's very different to the Lightspeed, hell it's active!
It's the use of the name Lightspeed attached to that product and in it's user manual, they have see the error and are doing something about it. Zen Mod is doing the same.
The other problem I have are people who directly copy it using group buys to make it then to on sell it to make monitory gains. And have never have anything to give back to DIYAudio, or the Audio community, they are leaches of the first order.
Cheers George
Lightspeed Remote Control
Hi Folks.
One of my customers has asked if I supply other manufacturers with the remote control system I designed for Lightspeed with particular reference to the EVA design that DIY Paradise offer.
For the record, I only supply my own proprietary regulator designs to Yeo, at DIY Paradise. These are specifically for use with his DAC and amplifier products. The person who developed EVA goes by the name VTC4 on the Paradise forum. I believe he also designed Charlise.
I only supply VCCS, IR and IT boards or built and tested modules for DIY application, with the lightspeed configuration, at a price that covers all the costs of supply. There is no business profit added to the price. I provide this design by request from enthusiasts on the forum thread and this was decided after consultation with George who gave his blessing to this. I do not knowingly supply other manufacturers with the boards/modules, as this would be in contravention of my beliefs with regard to IP protection and to my agreement with George. George has been using his Lightspeed II design configuration, including his elegantly simple LDR LED drive method, prior to anyone else I know of and as far as I am concerned he has priority of use and name because of that fact. Irrespective of any inadequate laws governing protection, it is a matter of honour, and I will respect this.
Regards
Paul
Hi Folks.
One of my customers has asked if I supply other manufacturers with the remote control system I designed for Lightspeed with particular reference to the EVA design that DIY Paradise offer.
For the record, I only supply my own proprietary regulator designs to Yeo, at DIY Paradise. These are specifically for use with his DAC and amplifier products. The person who developed EVA goes by the name VTC4 on the Paradise forum. I believe he also designed Charlise.
I only supply VCCS, IR and IT boards or built and tested modules for DIY application, with the lightspeed configuration, at a price that covers all the costs of supply. There is no business profit added to the price. I provide this design by request from enthusiasts on the forum thread and this was decided after consultation with George who gave his blessing to this. I do not knowingly supply other manufacturers with the boards/modules, as this would be in contravention of my beliefs with regard to IP protection and to my agreement with George. George has been using his Lightspeed II design configuration, including his elegantly simple LDR LED drive method, prior to anyone else I know of and as far as I am concerned he has priority of use and name because of that fact. Irrespective of any inadequate laws governing protection, it is a matter of honour, and I will respect this.
Regards
Paul
If there are no objections to fresh starts lets help people build their Lightspeeds.
I dont think any of the major contributors to the thread will object to that. I am sure we will find out.
If you are reading this for the first time please take the time to read at LEAST the first 5 pages of this thread. There is absolutely NO passive preamp out there that matches the clarity, neutrality and absolute beauty in sound of the Lightspeed. This is a wonderful thread with good information in it but if you want the short of it read the first 5 pages and also visit the diyaudioprojects link in my signature where you can learn how to build one in a very short time.
Whether you buy LDRs from me makes no difference. I will assist you fully in building your pre amp. Dont think you are now going to be alone on this thread. I think there will still be lots of help but if thats not the case you will get assistance from at least me.
Sincerely
Uriah
I dont think any of the major contributors to the thread will object to that. I am sure we will find out.
If you are reading this for the first time please take the time to read at LEAST the first 5 pages of this thread. There is absolutely NO passive preamp out there that matches the clarity, neutrality and absolute beauty in sound of the Lightspeed. This is a wonderful thread with good information in it but if you want the short of it read the first 5 pages and also visit the diyaudioprojects link in my signature where you can learn how to build one in a very short time.
Whether you buy LDRs from me makes no difference. I will assist you fully in building your pre amp. Dont think you are now going to be alone on this thread. I think there will still be lots of help but if thats not the case you will get assistance from at least me.
Sincerely
Uriah
Banned
Joined 2002
Well to my knowledge there is no such thing as a Kit to the Lightspeed and I will not be the first guy to offer them.
What I am attempting to do here is keep this thread alive and keep people interested in DIYing their own Lightspeed.
I think any more talk in the negative tones we have experienced in the past few pages is counterproductive and I am trying to steer this thread back toward a more positive attitude where people feel free to ask questions about building their own Lightspeed in their own basement for their own use.
If I have any place to say so on this thread I would hope that we can turn the boat around and talk exclusively about George's Lightspeed circuit without mention of kits, etc which can do nothing but upset him further.
SO, again if you are new to this thread or have read it several times but have not built this circuit... DO you have any idea how easy this is to build!!?? It has got to be the simplest circuit for a new DIYer to dive into and will absolutely build a hunger for more DIYing as the results prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in any system that DIYing your own audio can provide incredible results.
To illustrate how easy this is to build I am going to look for a little pic I posted a year or so ago that has helped a lot of schematically challenged folks built the Lightspeed.
Lets keep it positive and on track Pic coming up, have to search hard drive..
Uriah
What I am attempting to do here is keep this thread alive and keep people interested in DIYing their own Lightspeed.
I think any more talk in the negative tones we have experienced in the past few pages is counterproductive and I am trying to steer this thread back toward a more positive attitude where people feel free to ask questions about building their own Lightspeed in their own basement for their own use.
If I have any place to say so on this thread I would hope that we can turn the boat around and talk exclusively about George's Lightspeed circuit without mention of kits, etc which can do nothing but upset him further.
SO, again if you are new to this thread or have read it several times but have not built this circuit... DO you have any idea how easy this is to build!!?? It has got to be the simplest circuit for a new DIYer to dive into and will absolutely build a hunger for more DIYing as the results prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in any system that DIYing your own audio can provide incredible results.
To illustrate how easy this is to build I am going to look for a little pic I posted a year or so ago that has helped a lot of schematically challenged folks built the Lightspeed.
Lets keep it positive and on track
Pic coming up, have to search hard drive..Uriah
Etch a board
You can etch your own boards. Or use perfboard. Etching is easy. Just downloard ExpressPCB or another free pcb software and then download pdf995. You design your pcb and then print it to a pdf file with pdf995. Then you print from pdf onto that overhead projector plastic sheets. You might have to try 4 or 5 times but its worth it. For even better chances of success try using HP toner. It matters a little
Anyway get some copperclad fiberglass board from ebay. Scrub it with Scotchbrite and then clean it with nail polish remover. Keep your oily fingers off of the copper now. Put the plastic sheet toner side down on the board. Put a sheet of paper over top of it and use some masking tape on the sides to hold it all in place. Maybe even use some little plastic vices or similar to hold all still. Then use the wifes iron and iron the image with decent pressure for a few minutes. Remove the paper but no the plastic. Put the rest in a cold water bath.
After a minute or so slowly remove the plastic in the water.
More later
Breakfast now.
Uriah
You can etch your own boards. Or use perfboard. Etching is easy. Just downloard ExpressPCB or another free pcb software and then download pdf995. You design your pcb and then print it to a pdf file with pdf995. Then you print from pdf onto that overhead projector plastic sheets. You might have to try 4 or 5 times but its worth it. For even better chances of success try using HP toner. It matters a little
Anyway get some copperclad fiberglass board from ebay. Scrub it with Scotchbrite and then clean it with nail polish remover. Keep your oily fingers off of the copper now. Put the plastic sheet toner side down on the board. Put a sheet of paper over top of it and use some masking tape on the sides to hold it all in place. Maybe even use some little plastic vices or similar to hold all still. Then use the wifes iron and iron the image with decent pressure for a few minutes. Remove the paper but no the plastic. Put the rest in a cold water bath.
After a minute or so slowly remove the plastic in the water.
More later
Breakfast now.
Uriah
Okay, now you probably have toner on the copper and it probably didnt transfer well. Try again and again. Soon you will have a process that works and you will be able to build your own boards whenever you want as long as they are single sided. Some people do double sided. Thats really hard.
So its transferred. If there are any tiny areas that did not transfer you can use a sharpie marker and fill them in. The sharpie has plastics in its ink and this will keep the copper from disolving in the acid bath. Thats right, acid bath.
You will now need a container bigger than your board and several inches deep. Plastic and you will never use it to eat out of again. You pour Muriatic Acid in it and also H202 (Hydrogen Peroxide). About a 4:1 ratio. Put the board in and keep this outside. Even with fans this is NOT an indoor project and I am not just being overly careful. If you breathe this in you will seriously hurt your lungs and the damage after a few breaths can be permanent. Do not stand downwind. Do not allow your family around this. I got it on my hands several times and it will yellow your skin instantly but is not a big deal. The breathing in and getting the fumes in your lungs or eyes is what is a big deal. Keep a lot of water around for a few reasons. One, you can dunk your hands in it if you get it on your hands. Two, you can wash the pavement if you get it on the pavement. (It will etch cement) and Three you will need to dunk your board in the water when its done etching to remove the acid.
Okay so how long do we etch the copper? Well just keep an eye on it. Heat makes it go faster but nothing happens so fast that you wont catch it. You will be able to see it echting away. I drill a hole in my board and tie a piece of plastic string to the hole so I can remove the pcb without getting my hands in the wash/acid. So pick up the board by the string and inspect it every few minutes and more often toward the end when its really obvious that the etching is nearly done.
This is a lot of fun, I think. I love having build my own boards. Its rewarding. It falls right into the geekiness of building audio and you can always brag about it
You will have to drill out the holes afterward and you can use regular drill bits but the Titanium bits are best and if you go to ebay you can find bits specifically for pcb drilling. Be careful as they are super durable up and down but will snap left and right.
Uriah
So its transferred. If there are any tiny areas that did not transfer you can use a sharpie marker and fill them in. The sharpie has plastics in its ink and this will keep the copper from disolving in the acid bath. Thats right, acid bath.
You will now need a container bigger than your board and several inches deep. Plastic and you will never use it to eat out of again. You pour Muriatic Acid in it and also H202 (Hydrogen Peroxide). About a 4:1 ratio. Put the board in and keep this outside. Even with fans this is NOT an indoor project and I am not just being overly careful. If you breathe this in you will seriously hurt your lungs and the damage after a few breaths can be permanent. Do not stand downwind. Do not allow your family around this. I got it on my hands several times and it will yellow your skin instantly but is not a big deal. The breathing in and getting the fumes in your lungs or eyes is what is a big deal. Keep a lot of water around for a few reasons. One, you can dunk your hands in it if you get it on your hands. Two, you can wash the pavement if you get it on the pavement. (It will etch cement) and Three you will need to dunk your board in the water when its done etching to remove the acid.
Okay so how long do we etch the copper? Well just keep an eye on it. Heat makes it go faster but nothing happens so fast that you wont catch it. You will be able to see it echting away. I drill a hole in my board and tie a piece of plastic string to the hole so I can remove the pcb without getting my hands in the wash/acid. So pick up the board by the string and inspect it every few minutes and more often toward the end when its really obvious that the etching is nearly done.
This is a lot of fun, I think. I love having build my own boards. Its rewarding. It falls right into the geekiness of building audio and you can always brag about it
You will have to drill out the holes afterward and you can use regular drill bits but the Titanium bits are best and if you go to ebay you can find bits specifically for pcb drilling. Be careful as they are super durable up and down but will snap left and right.
Uriah
Hi Tinitus,
My opinion has changed several times
Recently I have found that voltage does not matter. Keep it under 100mW. A lot of people will point to figures on Silonex' site stating that somewhere aroung 3-5V is best for distortion. This is utterly wrong. The documents on their site are misleading, but not intentionally misleading. The voltage that produces distortion is the voltage through the resistive material and not the LED.
I have been using 17V recently. Its fine.
The problem I find is that noise gets from the LED into the resistor. So its not that the LED is creating noise but if there is noise coming through, or generated by, your supply this gets to the LED and transfers to the resistor. I am not yet sure how to take care of this so a noisy mains creates a noisy signal.
At this point I have no preference between regulated and non regulated per se but I prefer building the quietest power supply you can. If you can eliminate hum, keep the ground quiet, get rid of lightswitch and refrigerator pops this will do the most good with your Lightspeed.
I have not yet tried caps on the leads of the LEDs. A friend of mine is using 220uf and snubs then and then puts a 1MR resistor across the snubber. He has not tried anything different though so we dont know if he is really benefiting from it or not. I put a .1uf across the LED leads but for some reason it seemed to let the DC through and the LED went dark. I tried no further but I do think it merits closer inspection. I just havent done that yet.
Uriah
I'll chime in....
I used Uriah's diagram to build my LS onto perfboard, but my very first experiment was hard-wired. Uriah supplied the matched LDRs and I supplied the other 10 or so bits! George's circuit is a great performer, and we're lucky he has shared it with us. I matched my LDR channels by looking at the outputs on the 'scope, at my listening volume position.
I built my effort into an old Trends TA-10 box (I murdered the original innards ), and squeezed in a super-regulated power supply as well (ALWSR - google for info). The lot is fed by a 12V linear wall-wart. Simples!
So, in summary:
No kit (or pcb) needed.
Definitely an easy first project.
Results far exceed effort or expense.
Use a clean power supply.
Cheers
Jon
I used Uriah's diagram to build my LS onto perfboard, but my very first experiment was hard-wired. Uriah supplied the matched LDRs and I supplied the other 10 or so bits! George's circuit is a great performer, and we're lucky he has shared it with us. I matched my LDR channels by looking at the outputs on the 'scope, at my listening volume position.
I built my effort into an old Trends TA-10 box (I murdered the original innards
), and squeezed in a super-regulated power supply as well (ALWSR - google for info). The lot is fed by a 12V linear wall-wart. Simples!So, in summary:
No kit (or pcb) needed.
Definitely an easy first project.
Results far exceed effort or expense.
Use a clean power supply.
Cheers
Jon
Was at the grocery store and it hit me that I left out some info.
I do prefer regulated at this point. The reason is that if you drop down to low voltage or low current any changes in mains voltage on a non regulated supply will change the impedance AND volume. I think it would have to happen (the voltage drop) pretty fast to be noticed but if you for instance turn your LDRs to 10k-20k depending on that particular LDRs efficiency and then drop the supply voltage by .01V the resulting resistance will be several hundred ohms so you can imagine a non regulated supply that loses 10V on the mains would make enough difference in resistance to change the volume. While I have not experienced this, only experimented with it, it is certainly feasible that it would/could happen.
I do prefer regulated at this point. The reason is that if you drop down to low voltage or low current any changes in mains voltage on a non regulated supply will change the impedance AND volume. I think it would have to happen (the voltage drop) pretty fast to be noticed but if you for instance turn your LDRs to 10k-20k depending on that particular LDRs efficiency and then drop the supply voltage by .01V the resulting resistance will be several hundred ohms so you can imagine a non regulated supply that loses 10V on the mains would make enough difference in resistance to change the volume. While I have not experienced this, only experimented with it, it is certainly feasible that it would/could happen.
Lightspeed remote control
Hi Folks,
Out of interest I made provision on the VCCS board to fit my Z17 type low noise mini shunt regs in place of the TL431 shunt regs. These are a lot quieter than the TL431. The current source section of the Z17 is not fitted to the mini reg as it is acting as a super Zener only. The S17 ultra-low noise mini regs can also be used to replace IC3 which was specified as MC7812CT. Applying these regs gives a very quiet control system with excellent supply line rejection over a very wide bandwidth. Quiet feed equals quiet lightspeed.
Regards
Paul
Hi Folks,
Out of interest I made provision on the VCCS board to fit my Z17 type low noise mini shunt regs in place of the TL431 shunt regs. These are a lot quieter than the TL431. The current source section of the Z17 is not fitted to the mini reg as it is acting as a super Zener only. The S17 ultra-low noise mini regs can also be used to replace IC3 which was specified as MC7812CT. Applying these regs gives a very quiet control system with excellent supply line rejection over a very wide bandwidth. Quiet feed equals quiet lightspeed.
Regards
Paul