Hi Frank,
I was thinking of picking a brand that was already claimed to be "obviously" directional. Sort of one where the participant has already verified in their own mind that it is indeed directional. I think they are all audio myths myself.
So John,
I'll cut ten cables from a spool and randomize the directions, you can have them as long as you want and listen to them in the comfort of your own system. Nope, too much to lose.
Stick it, Scott. You know my position on this. AND how would I know that these cables are typically directional?
Hi,
Scott,
Not sure what JC replied to. I guess it's about that DBT test though.
To me, wire directionality is something that could be caused by the way the bare wire is drawn/or pushed through the die.
The effect, if any, could or could not be audible but I've never met anyone able to point to a wire connected backwards and asking for it to be reversed. Never.
I think the effect of just unplugging and replugging a cable into a system is greater than the assumed audibility of a preferred direction.
Furthermore I think lots of people confuse directionality of wire (as in bare wire) with the preferred direction of a shielded piece of cable.
I do recall some cable manufacturers (one that have a vested interest) claiming their goods to be directional, wire and finished cable) due to the way it was made.
I still have some of that cable and I can't say I hear any difference either way.
I don't think it sounded al that great either no matter how expensive it was.
BTW, don't know if you remember Steve Eddy's directionality contest but I particpated in it.
Those were just a couple of inches of enemalled, or was it Kapton, insulated wires of what seemed to be above average quality. Phelps-Dodge sourced, I guess.
Anyways, I wouldn't waste too much time on it.
Cheers, 😉
Scott,
Not sure what JC replied to. I guess it's about that DBT test though.
To me, wire directionality is something that could be caused by the way the bare wire is drawn/or pushed through the die.
The effect, if any, could or could not be audible but I've never met anyone able to point to a wire connected backwards and asking for it to be reversed. Never.
I think the effect of just unplugging and replugging a cable into a system is greater than the assumed audibility of a preferred direction.
Furthermore I think lots of people confuse directionality of wire (as in bare wire) with the preferred direction of a shielded piece of cable.
I do recall some cable manufacturers (one that have a vested interest) claiming their goods to be directional, wire and finished cable) due to the way it was made.
I still have some of that cable and I can't say I hear any difference either way.
I don't think it sounded al that great either no matter how expensive it was.
BTW, don't know if you remember Steve Eddy's directionality contest but I particpated in it.
Those were just a couple of inches of enemalled, or was it Kapton, insulated wires of what seemed to be above average quality. Phelps-Dodge sourced, I guess.
Anyways, I wouldn't waste too much time on it.
Cheers, 😉
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We tried this a few years ago. The assertive fellow who called the rationalists deaf, closed-minded, and insensitive disappeared as soon as the test was ready to begin. Sic transit gloria Mr. Feedback.
John you always claim the wire you use is directional, so let it be bear's silver wire. You choose the wire.
@ SY. All this makes me wish I had the opportunity to take your test when I was convinced that I could hear cable sound with my eyes closed. I would have passed your DBT with ease absolutely no doubt about it.
Frequense-resonce is the last thing I would check up, it only shows energy-level and says nothing about purity/dynamics aso.
Btw; mods should act like..
Btw; mods should act like..
Posted by john curl
If not all wires are directional and the alleged differences in "directional" wires are due to how it is manufactured, than wouldn't a wire's "non-directionality" indicate it is less defective then the directional wire?
Also curious, if wires are directional, and AC current is not, how does directional wire do anything more than filter off DC offset?
Eric
If not all wires are directional and the alleged differences in "directional" wires are due to how it is manufactured, than wouldn't a wire's "non-directionality" indicate it is less defective then the directional wire?
Also curious, if wires are directional, and AC current is not, how does directional wire do anything more than filter off DC offset?
Eric
Well, how long has John been at it? Changing things, measuring things, listening, making mistakes? How long has he been actively training himself?
This is interesting. Listen to 6, 7 & 8. No17 is relevant also:
FORA.tv - Jonah Lehrer: How We Decide
When faced with judging and discriminating complex data, (and I think reproduced sound is complex - lots and lots of variables to consider), we don't and can't rely on consciously logical subjective activity. We have to go with "feelings" and apparently vague attributions. How did the guy know they were missiles and not planes?
I'm sure John can hear some things I can't and can reliably attribute them to specific causes. Whether or not he can always spot musical differences due to say, speaker cables, I don't know. I'd think he probably can, sometimes, at a rate better than chance.
I don't have a dog in the fight. I've never worried about the wire, but I'm a fanatic about really, really, really, really, solid connections at each end.😉
Linear frequency response is not indicative of signal "purity"?
Can you define "Dynamics" without invoking frequency?
This is like calling someone chicken to do something that is doomed from the start. Also, I have had people note wire directionality in one of our set-ups and it was changed
I would like to point out that when audio designers refer to quality wire, we don't mean something that is normally found at the hardware store, or the Belden or Alpha catalog.
We might think of Mogami as a good start, but there is better out there.
Once, I was sent some cable for a comparison like this. They were not BAD cables, in fact, they measured better than some more expensive cables that I had around. They were therefore bad subjects for comparison, because there wasn't much different about them. If I wanted to find differences, I looked into some of the cheapest and some of the most expensive wires, to find the real odd balls, that actually had a fair amount of harmonic distortion (compared to many others). It would be the same here. Trying to compare directionality in a random wire, might well be useless, YET with another cable type, very useful.
We might think of Mogami as a good start, but there is better out there.
Once, I was sent some cable for a comparison like this. They were not BAD cables, in fact, they measured better than some more expensive cables that I had around. They were therefore bad subjects for comparison, because there wasn't much different about them. If I wanted to find differences, I looked into some of the cheapest and some of the most expensive wires, to find the real odd balls, that actually had a fair amount of harmonic distortion (compared to many others). It would be the same here. Trying to compare directionality in a random wire, might well be useless, YET with another cable type, very useful.
What "fair amount of harmonic distortion," John?
A variety of cables were measured, including some of the very same cables that you have measured, on a measurement system significantly better than yours and looking 20dB below where you were capable of measuring, and there was no harmonic distortion.
The only distortion seen was the residual distortion of Bruno Putzey's Audio Precision System Two Cascade.
Clearly whatever distortion you were looking at wasn't being produced by the cables.
se
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