LM338 regulated snubberized PSU for audio amplifiers

[carlosfm]

There is a difference between alchemy and science.

Audio Alchemy, then.

Keep playin' with the simulator, it's fun.

 

[Peter Daniel]

I agree... i guess its because some of the "personalities" of the forum have slowly gone (briangt, peter). why is this? where is the fire now?

Alright, let me add some fire.

It is my opinion that nothing could be done to improve the original GC configuration. I tried everything that was presented so far, on this forum, yet I'm constantly coming back to what I have chosen a year ago or so.

Some approaches may add more flavour, or provide false impression of a "better" sound, but in the end they show lack of being one with the music and only bring you closer to the way other amps present musical picture: they merely descibe it, but don't provide much of the emotional aspects of the presentation.

If I could recommend anything to improve things, it would be a bridged configuration that I'm presently using, and I think it's the best so far.

Gone are the fancy enclosures and machining. Only the basic materials are being used, and with proper setup, they provide very good sonic envelope. Investing in high performance interconnects (Cardas Golden Reference) was move into right direction: low level resolution of spatial information, as well as pitch definition and sense of dynamics are better than ever, something I didn't think was possible with this amp.

 

[jleaman]

Me thinks that gain clones are good enough for computer speakers and not hi-fi Audio. I have nothing but problems with gain clones in my system so now it is all aleph stuff or class ab no more gain clone's.. Build a Aleph

 

[Peter Daniel]

I've seen your Minis, they look great. So finally you got amps that work for you, that's good.

I have plans of coming up with an ultimate Aleph X amp, but building a proper chassis takes so much consideration, that I'm still at PCB stage. I want to implement in that Aleph all the tricks I learned while playing with GC, and they were saying that you learn nothing from building GC

 

[jleaman]

I've seen your Minis, they look great. So finally you got amps that work for you, that's good.

I have plans of coming up with an ultimate Aleph X amp, but building a proper chassis takes so much consideration, that I'm still at PCB stage. I want to implement in that Aleph all the tricks I learned while playing with GC, and they were saying that you learn nothing from building GC

I learned lots from the gain clone. There fussy amps and they don't like to play with others in the room. My aleph minis are not done the ones you have been seeing are the proto types from briangt they are the smd ones. I still like them and they run awesome. I can't wait to get my other 6 channels built they will be good with my new dac too.

 

[jleaman]

My Aleph's playing nice with tube amps.

 

[carlosfm]

Alright, let me add some fire.

It is my opinion that nothing could be done to improve the original GC configuration. I tried everything that was presented so far, on this forum, yet I'm constantly coming back to what I have chosen a year ago or so.

Some approaches may add more flavour, or provide false impression of a "better" sound, but in the end they show lack of being one with the music and only bring you closer to the way other amps present musical picture: they merely descibe it, but don't provide much of the emotional aspects of the presentation.

If I could recommend anything to improve things, it would be a bridged configuration that I'm presently using, and I think it's the best so far.

Gone are the fancy enclosures and machining. Only the basic materials are being used, and with proper setup, they provide very good sonic envelope. Investing in high performance interconnects (Cardas Golden Reference) was move into right direction: low level resolution of spatial information, as well as pitch definition and sense of dynamics are better than ever, something I didn't think was possible with this amp.

Well Peter, I don't agree with your post, but as anything I can say could be taken wrong and lead this thread to another discussion, I'm just gonna comment the last part.
The interconnects don't have much to do with the power amp.
If you are using a low output impedance source you will be at a loss to discover noticeable differences in interconnects.
This is valid for either you are connecting that cable from a pre to the power amp or from a cdp to the (integrated) amp.
On my system a 1000€ + Wireworld interconnect made no difference, while in other systems it can make a subtle to quite big improvement.
On an all (top of the range) Arcam based system it was a great improvement over a cat5 interconnect.
On my system the difference with the same cables was nill.
100R for output impedance is already high, in my experience.
I use 50R or lower.
You can bring the cables.

Me thinks that gain clones are good enough for computer speakers and not hi-fi Audio. I have nothing but problems with gain clones in my system so now it is all aleph stuff or class ab no more gain clone's...

There fussy amps...

That's very right for the typical "Gainclone".
It can't drive most speakers (because of the very low capacitance PSU), it is very picky with cables (as it doesn't use a zobel), and the results are unpredictable from system to system.
Also, besides bass considerations (which can be just weak or very boomy and untight, depending on the speakers), there is also the treble, which sounds very detailed but on a close analysis is not clean.
It is misleading, and some may prefer the coloured sound of distortion.
With so much ripple from such a low capacitance PSU, it's not surprizing.
With a good PSU the treble is as detailed and extended, but also cleaner. It's the difference between a "tizz" and a "ting", a real cymbal, not a bloated, hardened, somewhat distorted one.

 

[Peter Daniel]

The output impedance of my preamp is 6 ohm.

Your comments (and observations) only confirm my previous findings: a fully "loaded" GC loses ability to differentiate between small nuances of detail and harmonic texture. A typical comment from people employing snubber or regulated supply with a Premium version: loss of resolution and immediacy.

Sure, the amp does not have anything to do with an IC, but if it fails to show the difference between interconnects, than you have a problem: either with the amp (or system), or with ability to perceive.

 

[carlosfm]

The output impedance of my preamp is 6 ohm.

Great.

Your comments (and observations) only confirm my previous findings: a fully "loaded" GC loses ability to differentiate between small nuances of detail and harmonic texture. A typical comment from people employing snubber or regulated supply with a Premium version: loss of resolution and immediacy.

Not the case, because I notice the difference immediately with higher than 100R output impedance, changing cables.
That's one of the points I always change in a source component.

It is intriguing how your 'flavoured' psu is 100uf total capacitance per rail.
What kind of speaker can this drive?
Transparency?
If you compare with something really good you'll notice a problem in the treble, believe it or not.
PSRR of these chips is not so good at high frequencies and 100uf capacitance PSU has HUGE ripple.

But hey, are we here to discuss what?
If that kind of amp works well in your system (which I find it hard to believe), better for you, but it won't work anywhere else.
We just have different oppinions, so... nevermind.

 

[jleaman]

The interconnects don't have much to do with the power amp.
If you are using a low output impedance source you will be at a loss to discover noticeable differences in interconnects.
This is valid for either you are connecting that cable from a pre to the power amp or from a cdp to the (integrated) amp.
On my system a 1000€ + Wireworld interconnect made no difference, while in other systems it can make a subtle to quite big improvement.

Now why would you say this ? Interconnects have lots to do with audio gear..

 

[Bricolo]

Alright, let me add some fire.

It is my opinion that nothing could be done to improve the original GC configuration. I tried everything that was presented so far, on this forum, yet I'm constantly coming back to what I have chosen a year ago or so.

Some approaches may add more flavour, or provide false impression of a "better" sound, but in the end they show lack of being one with the music and only bring you closer to the way other amps present musical picture: they merely descibe it, but don't provide much of the emotional aspects of the presentation.

If I could recommend anything to improve things, it would be a bridged configuration that I'm presently using, and I think it's the best so far.

Gone are the fancy enclosures and machining. Only the basic materials are being used, and with proper setup, they provide very good sonic envelope. Investing in high performance interconnects (Cardas Golden Reference) was move into right direction: low level resolution of spatial information, as well as pitch definition and sense of dynamics are better than ever, something I didn't think was possible with this amp.

Peter, are those 2 PHL midbass and a ribbon tweeter (certainly one outside my budget ) ? Running on a 1st order XO?

 

[Peter Daniel]

The top driver is Triangle T160/408c, bottom is PHL. The center tweeter is Raven 2.

While I was using 100u only at some time, presently I'm adding more capacitance right after rectifiers. While low capacitance was very good with certain type of music, it didn't have universal "flavour" with material demanding more bottom end drive.

No matter what output source impedance is: being it 3k or 6R, I perceive quite obvious difference in both cases, when swapping interconnects.

But again, those speakers are pretty well implemented ;-)

 

[carlosfm]

Now why would you say this ? Interconnects have lots to do with audio gear..

Now why would you say this ? Interconnects have lots to do with audio gear..

Have you really read my post?
Do you think that adding a better interconnect is improving your power amp, like Peter says?

Gone are the fancy enclosures and machining. Only the basic materials are being used, and with proper setup, they provide very good sonic envelope. Investing in high performance interconnects (Cardas Golden Reference) was move into right direction: low level resolution of spatial information, as well as pitch definition and sense of dynamics are better than ever, something I didn't think was possible with this amp.

Suddenly the "fancy" enclosures don't matter (before it made a big difference), fancy heatsinks, isolated or non-isolated chips... all of a sudden the secret to improve the performance of the power amp is the interconnects.

 

[carlosfm]

No matter what output source impedance is: being it 3k or 6R, I perceive quite obvious difference in both cases, when swapping interconnects.

Maybe you have tried better $$$ interconnects than I did.
The difference is subtle (when it's there), not night and day, with the cables I tested.
1000€ interconnect is out of the question for me, and I tried one.
It doesn't mean that the Wireworld cable in question is something to shout about.

But again, those speakers are pretty well implemented ;-)

Ah, sure...
The mother of all speakers.

 

[Peter Daniel]

Have you really read my post?
Do you think that adding a better interconnect is improving your power amp, like Peter says?



Suddenly the "fancy" enclosures don't matter (before it made a big difference), fancy heatsinks, isolated or non-isolated chips... all of a sudden the secret to improve the performance of the power amp is the interconnects.

I knew it will spark a fire. Let's continue to see how far we can go.

Carlos, you not only have to learn how to listen, but you also need to learn how to read carefully.

Where did I say better interconnects improve the amp?

Where did I say fancy enlosures matter or don't matter? Beside looking good, a fancy case is only a fancy case.

If you look closer at the picture, the chassis is still fancy, just made in a more simple way, that's about all to it: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=636576&stamp=1115409640

But somehow, it always bothered you

 

[Peter Daniel]

Maybe you have tried better $$$ interconnects than I did.
The difference is subtle (when it's there), not night and day, with the cables I tested.
1000€ interconnect is out of the question for me, and I tried one.
It doesn't mean that the Wireworld cable in question is something to shout about.



Ah, sure...
The mother of all speakers.

Well, my current interconnects are listed at $1,200 and I quite enjoy them. Presently I'm considering a similar product to complement the mother of all speakers

 

[carlosfm]

I knew it will spark a fire. Let's continue to see how far we can go.

It seems that you wanted to start a fire, as you announced.

Carlos, you not only have to learn how to listen...

That you will never know.
Does a TDA1543 with passive output sound good to you?
Really?
Is the problem in the source or in the amp or everywhere?

Where did I say fancy enlosures matters or doesn't matter? Beside looking good, a fancy case is only a fancy case.

You did.
Better without the lid, sonic properties of heatsinks, of isolated chips, etc...

But somehow, it always bothered you

What?
I don't know what you mean.
What was your intention to come here to my thread?
Are you worried about something?

 

[jleaman]

Be nice carlosfm this is a forum if you want to be rude and snarky talk amungst your selfs via email.. Every one is entitled to there own opinion nothing is perfect and nothing is better than any one elses in this world. It is all what you like that count's..

I do have one thing to say. If your saying interconnects have nothing to do with sound i think your totally wrong.

 

[Peter Daniel]

It seems that you wanted to start a fire, as you announced.



That you will never know.
Does a TDA1543 with passive output sound good to you?
Really?
Is the problem in the source or in the amp or everywhere?



You did.
Better without the lid, sonic properties of heatsinks, of isolated chips, etc...



What?
I don't know what you mean.
What was your intention to come here to my thread?
Are you worried about something?

Did I mention any problem? Read carefully and don't jump to conclusions.

It is better without lead, that's why there is no lead. But why does it bother you?

Just tell me you had enough of me, and I'll be gone (from your thread)

 

[Peter Daniel]

This forum became pretty stagnant recently (at least for my taste) that's why I'm trying my best at more interesting discussion, you know the type you are having on the other forum, that's supposed to be better.

But I guess I've chosen a wrong thread again