Banned
Joined 2002
Peter Daniel said:This forum became pretty stagnant recently (at least for my taste) that's why I'm trying my best at more interesting discussion, you know the type you are having on the other forum, that's supposed to be better.
But I guess I've chosen a wrong thread again
What other forum are you part of im interested in lots about your stuff i disagree on some stuff but its interesting to read and learn more..
jleaman said:
Why are you warning me?
Peter came here to star a fire (his own words).
It was not to give an oppinion.
Actually that oppinion is biased, try to figure out why.
jleaman said:
I must be talking chinese, then.
Peter Daniel said:
It doesn't.
Why would you think it bothers me what you say?
Peter Daniel said:Just tell me you had enough of me, and I'll be gone (from your thread)
I'm not that kind of person, I don't quit, specially with insinuations like these.
Look, BrianGT is a much more serious and honest guy than you are.
Don't make me talk, ok?
Quit it, you've sold your fish.
Peter Daniel said:
I'm not his client, anyway.
Peter Daniel said:
Remember the first snubberized PSU board, that is sold with the LM3886 boards?
Sure you remember, I designed it.
Because you and Brian were making horrible layouts on the first prototypes.
Brian asked me for help and I liked the way he talked to me.
Then I though, what the hell, if someone's gonna try my PSU, then let it be decent.
It was his suggestion to put my name on those boards.
Later, Brian sent me some boards for me to try, along with some Elna PSU caps.
That's it.
I didn't (and don't) make one cent out of this.
To my surprize (I should have known), you started selling them two, with a different colour and taste, different web site.
But you never contacted me, you didn't gave me any credit for the design, you didn't put my name on the boards, you never told me anything.
Although I knew you were in permanent contact with Brian.
Different education, different way to make business, isn't it?
Banned
Joined 2002
carlosfm said:
I now smell fire..
Good point's Brian is a really good person honest and yes he makes money on things but all the effort he puts into all this stuff he should get way more that we all know about..
Peter you could have given credit to carlos for his psu design's.. I have one of your psu boards carlos and i love it small compact ( briangt design ) and it works well of course i dont use it with the gainclone but i do use it with my other amp's..
leadbelly said:Er, ah, maybe you should sit this out Jason, you might get caught by the errant punch, there is still a lot of fight left in them
If it depends on me, I've said what I had to say.
And I didn't wanted to say, but things just got that way.
I really don't like this kind of talk:
Peter Daniel said:Just tell me you had enough of me, and I'll be gone (from your thread)
carlosfm said:
If you check my website, you should notice that I’m not selling any LM3886 products, neither I’m selling anything that has snubber in the product description, and I only mentioned once (in February news) that the boards “accept snubber, if someone wants to use it “.
While initially I was taken by the idea of a snubber, later on, after more thorough examination and the feedback from other listeners, I decided to abondon the snubber idea. While it does something to seemingly “improve” bottom end, it also (the snubber) does something that substantially degrades the rest of the audio band, to the point that I don’t feel this would enhance the performance of the kits, but rather degrade it.
Whenever asked about it, this is my recommendation to potential customer. None of the kits is supplied with snubber parts and out of approx 200 kits I sold this year, I only had 4 or 5 request for those parts. In other words, I’m not using the concept of snubberized supply, to enhance kit sales.
I always give credit when it’s due, and I mentioned your achievement initially on my site, but later removed that info, when decided not to promote snubber usage. That’s why I don’t see any reason why I should be crediting you now, even more, putting your name on the boards.
If you want to see the proper way of giving credit, check my announcement of the DAC kit.
Now, expanding on a credit giving issue, the original GC board was mainly my design, both parts choices as well as the layout concept. I still have the exact (hand) drawing later used for PCB layout.
The LM4780 board, was even more my design, and you can see how it was conceptually progressing in a specific diyAudio thread. Nowhere on those boards you can see my name, and only on few occasions the proper credit was ever given.
Otherwise those boards are known as BrianGT boards. The later modifications to Zobel parts placement, as well –IN coupling cap/resistor swap on LM3886 board was also coming from me.
I have verbal agreement with Brian, that I have exclusive rights to sell those boards internationally, however recently, I noticed the same boards being sold on two other European sites, both of them run by diyAudio Moderators. I was never approached before those boards appeared there. Some of my UK clients were actually under impression that I have UK agent, which is not the case. I don't really care about it much, as my current offerings introduce further improvements (on those original boards).
With regards to “horrible” snubberized PS layouts, I had a pretty good one, but it was dismissed by Brian as being too compact
I've been visiting this excellent forum for a couple of years now and am indebted to it for most of the information that has enabled me to enjoy my Gainclone experience.
The only downside is the occasional argument, some of which are over the top and a dis-service to diyAudio! For my part, I have endeavoured to stay out of any controversy but in this case, my patience has been tested to the limit!
OK, this thread is basically about the snubberized PSU as used with the Gainclone. I'll come out and state my opinions on that. I have tried a couple of versions of the snubberized PSU and the snubberized regulated PSU. Otherwise, I would not feel happy about, or justified in contributing to this thread. My findings are that for some types of music, the original low capacitance supply can still sound better. As Peter Daniel states, it can reveal nuances that the snubberized PSU can't. But we all know that there are types of music, eg music with a large bass content that require more capacitance. And we know that some speakers are harder to drive than others. And we know that adding more capacitance to the Gainclone spoils the higher frequencies.
Carlos has worked hard to overcome the problems associated with using higher capacitance PSU's with the Gainclone. In the spirit of DIY, he shared his solutions on this forum. Now if you don't know that just about every aspect of reproducing sound is a compromise, you haven't learned very much about this hobby. And yes, the snubberized PSU is compromised and I don't think that Carlos would claim (or has claimed) that it is THE perfect solution. But on some types of music, it does improve things.
I can understand why those with the appropriate level of knowledge and experience may wish to question the theory behind the snubberized PSU and it is reasonable that they should asked their questions. Of course, it would be more reasonable if they had also built the circuits in question and listened to them, as hi-fi is subjective as well as objective.
If Carlos can answer the questions put to him, he does. If he doesn't answer them satisfactorily, then it's probably just because he can't. Why not just accept that and let the matter drop (he's not meant to be on trial here). This is a forum for amateurs building hi-fi as a hobby, not a training ground for the Spanish Inquisition!
Now I have really tried in my couple of years on diyAudio, to contribute where I can, accept that most people know more about electronics than I do, and not get involved in any arguments, or take sides. But Peter has come to this thread and by his own words, clearly admitted to starting an argument. Even accepting that English is not his first language, I would question his use of the word 'stagnant' to describe the forum! Yes, it's been a little quieter than it was. But everything goes in cycles and the Gainclone has had a pretty good run and it is now harder to develop it much further. That's no excuse to increase the post rate by attacking another member; and to be honest; I am a little disappointed that the moderators have not stepped straight in here to stop it.
This is not an attack on Peter. I have great respect for his work but in this case he is clearly out of order. If the forum is quiet, then try and find something constructive to get things moving.
Jason, respect to you too but I'm not sure why you have got involved in all this. In two years, you have hardly posted anything other than comments on other people's posts. Perhaps you are a big fan of Peter's and want to support him but in that case, at least choose a valid cause young man.
I hope that I am not out of order in speaking for the vast number of people who come to the forum seeking information, help and fun when I say that the hi-jacking of threads as in this case is disappointing, confusing and distasteful and does the guilty parties no good at all!
The bottom line on the snubberized PSU is that you should read about it carefully, try the ideas presented and then draw your own conclusions. If you feel it necessary, politely record your findings here but don't attack the guy for giving you the idea in the first place (that's hardly going to encourage him, or anybody else, putting forward new ideas in the future and that will make the forum 'stagnant'). And with that I declare the Carlos hunting season well and truly closed!
The only downside is the occasional argument, some of which are over the top and a dis-service to diyAudio! For my part, I have endeavoured to stay out of any controversy but in this case, my patience has been tested to the limit!
OK, this thread is basically about the snubberized PSU as used with the Gainclone. I'll come out and state my opinions on that. I have tried a couple of versions of the snubberized PSU and the snubberized regulated PSU. Otherwise, I would not feel happy about, or justified in contributing to this thread. My findings are that for some types of music, the original low capacitance supply can still sound better. As Peter Daniel states, it can reveal nuances that the snubberized PSU can't. But we all know that there are types of music, eg music with a large bass content that require more capacitance. And we know that some speakers are harder to drive than others. And we know that adding more capacitance to the Gainclone spoils the higher frequencies.
Carlos has worked hard to overcome the problems associated with using higher capacitance PSU's with the Gainclone. In the spirit of DIY, he shared his solutions on this forum. Now if you don't know that just about every aspect of reproducing sound is a compromise, you haven't learned very much about this hobby. And yes, the snubberized PSU is compromised and I don't think that Carlos would claim (or has claimed) that it is THE perfect solution. But on some types of music, it does improve things.
I can understand why those with the appropriate level of knowledge and experience may wish to question the theory behind the snubberized PSU and it is reasonable that they should asked their questions. Of course, it would be more reasonable if they had also built the circuits in question and listened to them, as hi-fi is subjective as well as objective.
If Carlos can answer the questions put to him, he does. If he doesn't answer them satisfactorily, then it's probably just because he can't. Why not just accept that and let the matter drop (he's not meant to be on trial here). This is a forum for amateurs building hi-fi as a hobby, not a training ground for the Spanish Inquisition!
Now I have really tried in my couple of years on diyAudio, to contribute where I can, accept that most people know more about electronics than I do, and not get involved in any arguments, or take sides. But Peter has come to this thread and by his own words, clearly admitted to starting an argument. Even accepting that English is not his first language, I would question his use of the word 'stagnant' to describe the forum! Yes, it's been a little quieter than it was. But everything goes in cycles and the Gainclone has had a pretty good run and it is now harder to develop it much further. That's no excuse to increase the post rate by attacking another member; and to be honest; I am a little disappointed that the moderators have not stepped straight in here to stop it.
This is not an attack on Peter. I have great respect for his work but in this case he is clearly out of order. If the forum is quiet, then try and find something constructive to get things moving.
Jason, respect to you too but I'm not sure why you have got involved in all this. In two years, you have hardly posted anything other than comments on other people's posts. Perhaps you are a big fan of Peter's and want to support him but in that case, at least choose a valid cause young man.
I hope that I am not out of order in speaking for the vast number of people who come to the forum seeking information, help and fun when I say that the hi-jacking of threads as in this case is disappointing, confusing and distasteful and does the guilty parties no good at all!
The bottom line on the snubberized PSU is that you should read about it carefully, try the ideas presented and then draw your own conclusions. If you feel it necessary, politely record your findings here but don't attack the guy for giving you the idea in the first place (that's hardly going to encourage him, or anybody else, putting forward new ideas in the future and that will make the forum 'stagnant'). And with that I declare the Carlos hunting season well and truly closed!
Originally posted by Nuuk And with that I declare the Carlos hunting season well and truly closed!
Good post Nuuk. Watch out, you are sounding like mod material...
As to Jason, he must be off his meds. or stressed by the 2nd move in a month.... he came off sounding like Lou on a couple posts there...
dave
Full ack to nuuk.
I think that most people want (yes, in this case i include myself) the best solution for a fair cost. And they don't have (or want to give) the money to try out all the improvements. So they wait a little and at then they come to a point where they have to choose the way (this case: simple psu, snubb psu and reg snubb psu).
It's not easy to make a decision that will cost in some cases lots of money (size of toroids, number of elkos, quality level of parts).
I've the same problem with a preamp: first i bought the parts for carlos' solution, added some that come up on later improvements and started to make the pcb.
Then i heared about the resistors from V- to opamp-out, saw another solution with a diode in the cicuit, ---- what the hell should i do?
And yes: you can recalculate the solutions (if you can), make your own tests and may come to very strange reults but: remember there is a lack between theory and praxis - especially in analog circuits. So don't damn people who did their own improvements by the trail and error method - try your own improvments, validate the theory then you will see (or probably not).
So people, let's thank all the guys (maybe some girls too?) that tried and invented, spent lots of hours that we don't have to spend! They gave us their knowledge for free!
Thank you all!
Michael
I think that most people want (yes, in this case i include myself) the best solution for a fair cost. And they don't have (or want to give) the money to try out all the improvements. So they wait a little and at then they come to a point where they have to choose the way (this case: simple psu, snubb psu and reg snubb psu).
It's not easy to make a decision that will cost in some cases lots of money (size of toroids, number of elkos, quality level of parts).
I've the same problem with a preamp: first i bought the parts for carlos' solution, added some that come up on later improvements and started to make the pcb.
Then i heared about the resistors from V- to opamp-out, saw another solution with a diode in the cicuit, ---- what the hell should i do?
And yes: you can recalculate the solutions (if you can), make your own tests and may come to very strange reults but: remember there is a lack between theory and praxis - especially in analog circuits. So don't damn people who did their own improvements by the trail and error method - try your own improvments, validate the theory then you will see (or probably not).
So people, let's thank all the guys (maybe some girls too?) that tried and invented, spent lots of hours that we don't have to spend! They gave us their knowledge for free!
Thank you all!
Michael
slackman said:
I could hardly agree more, with one addition.....
How about that people at least took the effort to ask before they commercialize other people's work?
Enough members have been run off from this forum by ****** whom can't seem to understand that what is posted here is granted for DIY and nothing else.
http://www.basaudio.net/various.htm
Another bad example!!!!
No wonder that little of news value have been posted recently. I could hardly imagine anybody wanting to sponsor designs for other peoples commercial endavours.
Magura
This is a problem you alwas will have.
If you post here in the forum you must live with those people.
I can't imagine that those black sheeps will make lots of money with thier plagiates - do there are so many diyers? Don't think so.
And don't forget: most of the design is (usually) done by the chip manufacturer - he still wants to sell chips
New products: are there any new chipdesigns like the lm 3886 and tda chips from the last couple of years? I didn't saw any new chip but maybe i'm blind.
mic
If you post here in the forum you must live with those people.
I can't imagine that those black sheeps will make lots of money with thier plagiates - do there are so many diyers? Don't think so.
And don't forget: most of the design is (usually) done by the chip manufacturer - he still wants to sell chips
New products: are there any new chipdesigns like the lm 3886 and tda chips from the last couple of years? I didn't saw any new chip but maybe i'm blind.
mic
Are these suitable for the snubber psu?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=672720#post672720
TIA, Jim
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=672720#post672720
TIA, Jim
Nuuk said:
Great post Nuuk, even greater is your contribution in chipamp circles, but I don't think your grasp on the issue is correct here.
It was not my intention to start an argument. I only wanted to add some fire to the discussion, that would not necessary need to end up in an argument.
I'm sick and tired that people cannot express their opinions on this forum without being attacked by other members, and this what exactly happenned here.
After so many months of PS discussions I simply stated what works for me, and it could end up like that, yet Carlos couldn't let it go, he used every single argument he could think of, attacking the choices I made in a past and presenting them here as inferior (which of course is not true).
He went so far as questioning the integrity of my business approach and trying to insinuate I am using his ideas to make profit (which is laughable).
He may be one of the other influential "personalities" here, on a chip amp forum, but he definitely has to adjust his behaviour while interacting with other members.
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