From sinbin planet10 post:
"By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening , or otherwise violative of any laws."
Notice how Planet10 interprets a lawsuit threat in a skewd manner as a physical, personal threat or a threat that against the law. Since when suing people is against the law?
I guess Planet10 must have a gotten frugal-phile law degree!
"By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening , or otherwise violative of any laws."
Notice how Planet10 interprets a lawsuit threat in a skewd manner as a physical, personal threat or a threat that against the law. Since when suing people is against the law?
I guess Planet10 must have a gotten frugal-phile law degree!
I haven't been around for a long time, but a lot of things have happened on this forum during these few months.
It is my humble opinion, that one should never forget that non native speakers (English) might cause confusion unwillingly, due to their lesser eloquence in the Language of Shakespeare. Let us all be a little bit more forgiving for certain slips of the tongue.
Furthermore, I don't think that Frank is going to ask a lawyer to start a legal action against an unknown individual, who is located somewhere in this virtual space. A legal action that would have to be based on one or two posts.
Get real.
Frank works in Europe where directors (sometimes) earn good wages, but not the wages paid by Amron...
Of course Frank might start a class action against Cisco corp, Microsoft and Logitech, because they provided the 'vehicles' and 'instruments' that allowed certain people to attack him personally. This verbal attack caused Frank emotional pain which could shorten his life. Therefore he might be entitled to a substantial sum of money.
Just a thought, Frank
Marc
It is my humble opinion, that one should never forget that non native speakers (English) might cause confusion unwillingly, due to their lesser eloquence in the Language of Shakespeare. Let us all be a little bit more forgiving for certain slips of the tongue.
Furthermore, I don't think that Frank is going to ask a lawyer to start a legal action against an unknown individual, who is located somewhere in this virtual space. A legal action that would have to be based on one or two posts.
Get real.
Frank works in Europe where directors (sometimes) earn good wages, but not the wages paid by Amron...
Of course Frank might start a class action against Cisco corp, Microsoft and Logitech, because they provided the 'vehicles' and 'instruments' that allowed certain people to attack him personally. This verbal attack caused Frank emotional pain which could shorten his life. Therefore he might be entitled to a substantial sum of money.
Just a thought, Frank
Marc
Hi all,
What the **** is going on here? I'm checking my favourite forum for any interesting new post and find dice jumping in fdegrove's face. And I think it's even more sad that I can't figure out what happened because posts were edited/deleted. One more time some quarrel of possibly minuscule gravity swells over it's bank just because the facts remain invisible and the "wranglers" get too serious to stop.
And MrFeedback, although I appreciate you very much I must say you're exagerrating! Even if you have reason to do so, it is definitely not a good move to post something like you did openly. If you make such a personal attack, please don't carry it out into the public, it will just light the wole thing up even worse...
IMHO this place is really ok, I've never experienced any rude behaviour against myself, most of the posts are an interesting and often funny read. And even if dice has reacted wrongly, we should always remember his merits, e.g. during the HH troubles,
when he gave Fred a last try and everything turned out good....
Eventhough dice's behaviour seems strange and unjustified, I think one should reflect on "some thoughts" wombat posted earlier in this thread:
This is a great place, and I believe our community can handle this prob and solve it.
Dice, please comment on the accusations!!!!
As I don't know exactly what happened, I should add that everything I've written above is only a statement of my opinion, I don't claim it's fact. You're welcome to comment but pleeease don't flame me.
What the **** is going on here? I'm checking my favourite forum for any interesting new post and find dice jumping in fdegrove's face.
And I think it's even more sad that I can't figure out what happened because posts were edited/deleted. One more time some quarrel of possibly minuscule gravity swells over it's bank just because the facts remain invisible and the "wranglers" get too serious to stop. And MrFeedback, although I appreciate you very much I must say you're exagerrating! Even if you have reason to do so, it is definitely not a good move to post something like you did openly. If you make such a personal attack, please don't carry it out into the public, it will just light the wole thing up even worse...
IMHO this place is really ok, I've never experienced any rude behaviour against myself, most of the posts are an interesting and often funny read. And even if dice has reacted wrongly, we should always remember his merits, e.g. during the HH troubles,
when he gave Fred a last try and everything turned out good....
Eventhough dice's behaviour seems strange and unjustified, I think one should reflect on "some thoughts" wombat posted earlier in this thread:
Wombat said:
This is a great place, and I believe our community can handle this prob and solve it.
Dice, please comment on the accusations!!!!
As I don't know exactly what happened, I should add that everything I've written above is only a statement of my opinion, I don't claim it's fact. You're welcome to comment but pleeease don't flame me.
Tiroth wrote:
Eventhough I had my own little clash with Frank in the DIY TT thread I am very sorry to see this happening. And I think it was unneccessary too. He may be a pain sometimes, perhaps even often, but I did learn a few things from him as well and that is good enough for me.
It is difficult enough to get along with the people you live and work with in real life. It is probably even more difficult on the internet where we all come from different parts of the world with (sometimes VERY) different perceptions of what is right/important/funny/threatening/valuable/annoying and what is not. Please count to ten before you feel offended.
Agreed.
Eventhough I had my own little clash with Frank in the DIY TT thread I am very sorry to see this happening. And I think it was unneccessary too. He may be a pain sometimes, perhaps even often, but I did learn a few things from him as well and that is good enough for me.
Also agreed with the emphasis on sometimes . BUT I also find Bernhard to be a VERY valuable and knowledgable member of this forum who has gone to an awful lot of trouble to help us even to the extend of having parts especially made for us. You should not take something like that lightly.
It is difficult enough to get along with the people you live and work with in real life. It is probably even more difficult on the internet where we all come from different parts of the world with (sometimes VERY) different perceptions of what is right/important/funny/threatening/valuable/annoying and what is not. Please count to ten before you feel offended.
Very nice thread!
I am amazed
by the the thinking capacity
and sometimes even wisdome
that you, guys
can display
In Sweden we say, but unfortunately not always are doing
Tänk först - och tala se'n!
Think first - and speak after!
Here is a thread where some good thinking is done before speaking.
Another thing that can seem frightening
but it is still how it works:
Your speaking and your words affect your thinking.
It is creative in both ways.
The "word" came first, then there was light.
Some say that we even can not do any thinking without words.
So our choice of words affect the way we are.
I will also say, considering person appointed by USA to their leader,
that we have a choice of love/not love - hate/not hate.
In that way we have responsability for what this world looks like.
Each and everyone of us, even some odd swede,
that sometimes forget his responsability.
/halojoy
the incarnation
I am amazed
by the the thinking capacity
and sometimes even wisdome
that you, guys
can display
In Sweden we say, but unfortunately not always are doing
Tänk först - och tala se'n! Think first - and speak after!Here is a thread where some good thinking is done before speaking.
Another thing that can seem frightening
but it is still how it works:
Your speaking and your words affect your thinking.
It is creative in both ways.
The "word" came first, then there was light.
Some say that we even can not do any thinking without words.
So our choice of words affect the way we are.
I will also say, considering person appointed by USA to their leader,
that we have a choice of love/not love - hate/not hate.
In that way we have responsability for what this world looks like.
Each and everyone of us, even some odd swede,
that sometimes forget his responsability.
/halojoy
the incarnation
This all goes back to the "which hat" issue.
Dice 45 changed hat's half way through a post to rant at Frank.
This is not clear by looking in the trash, but can be seen on a copy of the thread here:
http://213.104.83.198/DIYaudio Forums.htm
There does seem to some confusion in the minds of some moderators between a "difference of technological" opinion, and an "interpretation of rules" opinion.
A statement of the obvious:
We don't want or need technological opinions policed. It stifles debate, and causes resentment.
Ah well... that's me banned I suppose...
Must have missed a few things apparently. Sad they edit/delete the threads. Put them in the sinbin, lock them ok, but sensible people should be able to make up their own minds.
There have been clashes before, there will be others. Problem with non-verbal indirect communication like a forum is that body language is absent. Colorful smilies will NOT change this.
There have been clashes before, there will be others. Problem with non-verbal indirect communication like a forum is that body language is absent. Colorful smilies will NOT change this.
grataku said:Notice how Planet10 interprets a lawsuit threat in a skewd manner as a physical, personal threat or a threat that against the law. Since when suing people is against the law?
I guess Planet10 must have a gotten frugal-phile law degree!
It seems clear to me that he does not interpret it as being against the law but rather against the forum rules which are not to be confused with the law. The forum rules are up to the forum moderators and owners to decide on. His interpretation actually seems perfectly correct to me. If however the sentence is right or wrong I'd rather not comment on.
/UrSv
Copyright issue
I have been warned (in a friendly way), that I am in breach of copyright by making a snapshot of the forum available.
I'd thought this was possibly the case, but as we all know, in DIY circles copyright is rarely an issue, since we don't profit financially.
I had hoped that the moderators would not object to the showing the posts in context, and would therefore let it ride.
I'm not in competition with the forum, but want it to survive in the best possible form.
The server with this information is not contactable via ftp, therefore I will have to physically access it to remove the files. This will be done at the earliest possible time: Approximately 00:30 GMT 5 December 2002.
I have been warned (in a friendly way), that I am in breach of copyright by making a snapshot of the forum available.
I'd thought this was possibly the case, but as we all know, in DIY circles copyright is rarely an issue, since we don't profit financially.
I had hoped that the moderators would not object to the showing the posts in context, and would therefore let it ride.
I'm not in competition with the forum, but want it to survive in the best possible form.
The server with this information is not contactable via ftp, therefore I will have to physically access it to remove the files. This will be done at the earliest possible time: Approximately 00:30 GMT 5 December 2002.
Re: It must be a conspiracy!
If Dice and the moderators were evil men with bad hearts they would not have acted in such a manner with HH, Fred.
The legal part of this may bear more weight than you think. I received an E-mail from Frank where he copied what he had sent the site. It was clear that he was threatening legal action and not humourous.
Personally, In real life I find a way of terminating every individual that threatens me with legal action.
sincerely
Ken
Jocko Homo said:
If Dice and the moderators were evil men with bad hearts they would not have acted in such a manner with HH, Fred.
The legal part of this may bear more weight than you think. I received an E-mail from Frank where he copied what he had sent the site. It was clear that he was threatening legal action and not humourous.
Personally, In real life I find a way of terminating every individual that threatens me with legal action.
jwb said:
sincerely
Ken
I didn't express myself very well last night with regard to Planet10 interpretation of the forum rules. I made several grammar mistakes that made it impossible even for me to understand what I was tring to say. I apologize.
Planet10 took a word "threat" out of contest and wrongfully interpreted it's meaning in order to justify giving Frank the proverbial boot. The fact that this was concocted by the moderators as a whole makes it worse, not better. In my opinion Frank will not be allowed back, not that he would care. He will, in essence, be the sacrificial lamb.
It is my personal opinion that the moderator's position should be a limited time one, we all know what happens when the same people have the power for too long.
Also a nice introspective look should be taken by the moderator to evaluate what their job is and (or) should be really about. Someone that is unable to keep him-herself above the noise level should not be a moderator. Moderator should not have the ability to -control- the general content of whatever they are moderating, as long as rules are respected, even if they dislike or consider the content wrong.
It's simply none of their business.
Last but not least, moderator should not be allowed to edit their own posts, that would make them think twice, and would allow other member to make their own conclusions.
Planet10 took a word "threat" out of contest and wrongfully interpreted it's meaning in order to justify giving Frank the proverbial boot. The fact that this was concocted by the moderators as a whole makes it worse, not better. In my opinion Frank will not be allowed back, not that he would care. He will, in essence, be the sacrificial lamb.
It is my personal opinion that the moderator's position should be a limited time one, we all know what happens when the same people have the power for too long.
Also a nice introspective look should be taken by the moderator to evaluate what their job is and (or) should be really about. Someone that is unable to keep him-herself above the noise level should not be a moderator. Moderator should not have the ability to -control- the general content of whatever they are moderating, as long as rules are respected, even if they dislike or consider the content wrong.
It's simply none of their business.
Last but not least, moderator should not be allowed to edit their own posts, that would make them think twice, and would allow other member to make their own conclusions.
Ask yourself why people post messages here?
- Looking for information, advice or help.
- Trying to help someone else directly by answering a question or indirectly by posting ideas, sources for info.
- Getting some ego boost from being respected for our knowledge and insight (we all like that).
To my mind the primary job for the moderators is to stop destructive behavior. Like the following (there are others but these seem most worthy of intervention to me):
- Squelching fruitfull or fun discussions.
- Posting unsafe information.
- Unfairly attacking or humiliating someone else (even when the details of what is being said is correct).
Every one of us has been wrong and has said stupid things. None of us have a monopoly on understanding or knowledge. When someone is treated with disrespect part of what makes this site fun and valuable is being damaged.
It is very easy to criticize how someone else does their job and from the outside everything "looks" easy. Put yourselves in the shoes of the moderators (please no, that has to be one of the more thankless jobs).
Phil
- Looking for information, advice or help.
- Trying to help someone else directly by answering a question or indirectly by posting ideas, sources for info.
- Getting some ego boost from being respected for our knowledge and insight (we all like that).
To my mind the primary job for the moderators is to stop destructive behavior. Like the following (there are others but these seem most worthy of intervention to me):
- Squelching fruitfull or fun discussions.
- Posting unsafe information.
- Unfairly attacking or humiliating someone else (even when the details of what is being said is correct).
Every one of us has been wrong and has said stupid things. None of us have a monopoly on understanding or knowledge. When someone is treated with disrespect part of what makes this site fun and valuable is being damaged.
It is very easy to criticize how someone else does their job and from the outside everything "looks" easy. Put yourselves in the shoes of the moderators (please no, that has to be one of the more thankless jobs).
Phil
what is that meants?
was Hitler wanted to do with the jews
what jews want to do with palestinian people
what arabs want to do with israelis??????????????????????
what white house wants to do with irakis
my association is colored of terminator films
but is how what that is right?
explains to me it, please
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