I feel like you didn't read my last post (I'm not blaming you, it was long). I actually haven't thought about the possibility to thicken the wall... The room behing the wall with the TV wouldn't really suffer from loosing 1-2 dm. Thanks for the idea!
/Anton
No, I apologize I did not read your post. I just think it's hopeless sometimes unless your spouse really supports your hobby and thinks it's fun. My wife supports me, so that's really really great. She's creative also, which helps a lot.
The ND magnet is smaller so obstructs the sound from the rear less and allows freer flow of air.
My wife's friend's told her the is lucky I am at home mucking around with audio instead out in a bar eyeing girls (like many of their hubbies do).
Exactly. And honey, thanks for letting me keep my old units tucked away. You never know I may need them again one day. O-:I method that has worked well for me over the years ...
Hi honey , Pick any two .....
Onni,
I have to apologise as I haven't read the whole thread, however obviously a lot of us face this problem and it's and on-going challenge for all of us. At the moment I'm working on a small 2-way monitor type deal with the awesome SB acoustics 5.5" woofers. In an ideal world I'd prefer to have 3-ways but I have to also accept that at this point in time I simply don't have the space for them!
Anyway, I thought you may be interested in these speakers, I can't remember where I came across the design, but because they're built to look like furniture and look good my wife actually gave them full approval... maybe show her the pic and see what she thinks
I have to apologise as I haven't read the whole thread, however obviously a lot of us face this problem and it's and on-going challenge for all of us. At the moment I'm working on a small 2-way monitor type deal with the awesome SB acoustics 5.5" woofers. In an ideal world I'd prefer to have 3-ways but I have to also accept that at this point in time I simply don't have the space for them!
Anyway, I thought you may be interested in these speakers, I can't remember where I came across the design, but because they're built to look like furniture and look good my wife actually gave them full approval... maybe show her the pic and see what she thinks
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That's beautiful! I'll show herOnni,
I have to apologise as I haven't read the whole thread, however obviously a lot of us face this problem and it's and on-going challenge for all of us. At the moment I'm working on a small 2-way monitor type deal with the awesome SB acoustics 5.5" woofers. In an ideal world I'd prefer to have 3-ways but I have to also accept that at this point in time I simply don't have the space for them!
Anyway, I thought you may be interested in these speakers, I can't remember where I came across the design, but because they're built to look like furniture and look good my wife actually gave them full approval... maybe show her the pic and see what she thinks
I'm putting together a PowerPoint with most of the ideas from this thread and a few other. I'll post her comments/ratings later.
/Anton
I like that design, it all makes sense to the eye. Very NiceOnni,
Anyway, I thought you may be interested in these speakers, I can't remember where I came across the design, but because they're built to look like furniture and look good my wife actually gave them full approval... maybe show her the pic and see what she thinks
Let's talk about how to make a crossover for the speaker I'm designing
As I've said I plan (not 100 % decided) on using the miniDSP. Let's say I'll build a set of three-way speakers (2-way/coaxial + subs) and one or two extra subs (Geddes approach). All I need is two 80 dollar devices (+10 dollar software and shipping) and a microphone (UMIK-1) I can borrow from a friend, to have a completely configurable crossover for all 8 drivers in my system (right?).
Implementation
So how do I implement them? Let's assume I sell my complete system and need to buy everything needed. I own a Cable TV box (Samsung cm700cf) and a PC, they currently send the audio signal by optical spdif to my receiver (Denon Avr-1907) and video by HDMI to my TV (Philips 55pfl7108). It's an "ok" solution as the TV has a horrible method of changing input (using a very slow menu that is different every time I start the TV). If there is a good solution that lets the TV only receive 1 input, that would be nice.
I would like to build my own (8 channel) amplifier, either using kits from 41hz.com, hifimediy or from eBay (I've heard good things about L15d/L20d).
Alternative 1a: Let the TV control input. Analog miniDSPs.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> TV - > DAC -> miniDSP (x2) -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume needs to be controlled by DAC or by adding a device into the chain.
Pros: only one DAC that does not need to have multiple inputs.
Cons: risk of TV polluting the signal. TV must be on for music (not a problem for me). Many DACs lack volume control. 1 extra AD/DA conversion (in miniDSP).
Alternative 1b: Let the TV control input. Analog miniDSP with vol-FP.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> TV - > DAC -> miniDSP 2x8 with vol-FP -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume controlled by vol-FP.
Pros: only one DAC that does not need to have multiple inputs. miniDSP 2x8 better than 2x4 (?).
Cons: risk of TV polluting the signal. TV must be on for music (not a problem for me). 1 extra AD/DA conversion (in miniDSP).
Alternative 2: Let the DAC control input.
Signal goes PC/cable-box - > DAC -> miniDSP (x2) -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume and input needs to be controlled by DAC or by adding a device into the chain. (or by swapping the two 2x4s for a 2x8 with vol-FP).
Pros: only one DAC. TV does not pollute signal.
Cons: DAC must have input and master level settable by remote.1 extra AD/DA conversion (in miniDSP).
Alternative 3: Let the nanoDIGI control input.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> nanoDIGI -> 3 DACs -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume is controlled by nanoDIGI.
Pros: No unnecessary AD/DA-conversions. TV does not pollute signal.
Cons: 3 DACs.
Alternative 4: Let the nanoAVR control input.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> nanoAVR -> receiver (pre-out) -> amplifier (and TV) -> speakers. Volume is controlled by receiver.
Pros: No unnecessary AD/DA-conversions. TV does not pollute signal. TV doesn't need to change input.
Cons: Receiver needed. Problem if encoded signal to nanoAVR.
Alternative 5: Let the digi-FP control input.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> miniDSP 2x8 with digi-FP and vol-FP -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume is controlled by vol-FP.
Pros: No unnecessary AD/DA-conversions. TV does not pollute signal. No DACs.
Cons: Expensive (?).
Holy crap! Help me choose! I'm leaning towards the last alternative as it is easiest and should provide good sound. It doesn't solve the input problem for my TV though...
/Anton
As I've said I plan (not 100 % decided) on using the miniDSP. Let's say I'll build a set of three-way speakers (2-way/coaxial + subs) and one or two extra subs (Geddes approach). All I need is two 80 dollar devices (+10 dollar software and shipping) and a microphone (UMIK-1) I can borrow from a friend, to have a completely configurable crossover for all 8 drivers in my system (right?).
Implementation
So how do I implement them? Let's assume I sell my complete system and need to buy everything needed. I own a Cable TV box (Samsung cm700cf) and a PC, they currently send the audio signal by optical spdif to my receiver (Denon Avr-1907) and video by HDMI to my TV (Philips 55pfl7108). It's an "ok" solution as the TV has a horrible method of changing input (using a very slow menu that is different every time I start the TV). If there is a good solution that lets the TV only receive 1 input, that would be nice.
I would like to build my own (8 channel) amplifier, either using kits from 41hz.com, hifimediy or from eBay (I've heard good things about L15d/L20d).
Alternative 1a: Let the TV control input. Analog miniDSPs.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> TV - > DAC -> miniDSP (x2) -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume needs to be controlled by DAC or by adding a device into the chain.
Pros: only one DAC that does not need to have multiple inputs.
Cons: risk of TV polluting the signal. TV must be on for music (not a problem for me). Many DACs lack volume control. 1 extra AD/DA conversion (in miniDSP).
Alternative 1b: Let the TV control input. Analog miniDSP with vol-FP.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> TV - > DAC -> miniDSP 2x8 with vol-FP -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume controlled by vol-FP.
Pros: only one DAC that does not need to have multiple inputs. miniDSP 2x8 better than 2x4 (?).
Cons: risk of TV polluting the signal. TV must be on for music (not a problem for me). 1 extra AD/DA conversion (in miniDSP).
Alternative 2: Let the DAC control input.
Signal goes PC/cable-box - > DAC -> miniDSP (x2) -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume and input needs to be controlled by DAC or by adding a device into the chain. (or by swapping the two 2x4s for a 2x8 with vol-FP).
Pros: only one DAC. TV does not pollute signal.
Cons: DAC must have input and master level settable by remote.1 extra AD/DA conversion (in miniDSP).
Alternative 3: Let the nanoDIGI control input.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> nanoDIGI -> 3 DACs -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume is controlled by nanoDIGI.
Pros: No unnecessary AD/DA-conversions. TV does not pollute signal.
Cons: 3 DACs.
Alternative 4: Let the nanoAVR control input.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> nanoAVR -> receiver (pre-out) -> amplifier (and TV) -> speakers. Volume is controlled by receiver.
Pros: No unnecessary AD/DA-conversions. TV does not pollute signal. TV doesn't need to change input.
Cons: Receiver needed. Problem if encoded signal to nanoAVR.
Alternative 5: Let the digi-FP control input.
Signal goes PC/cable-box -> miniDSP 2x8 with digi-FP and vol-FP -> amplifier -> speakers. Volume is controlled by vol-FP.
Pros: No unnecessary AD/DA-conversions. TV does not pollute signal. No DACs.
Cons: Expensive (?).
Holy crap! Help me choose! I'm leaning towards the last alternative as it is easiest and should provide good sound. It doesn't solve the input problem for my TV though...
/Anton
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Alternative no 5 if you can have a computer near the TV.
I personally use my computer as a TV and internet browser, so all my movie (that I download) and music is managed with the computer.
I would however get a USB DAC, something around 300$ would be great bang for the buck and offer good quality. look around the used market, you can have killer deals. You need a dac with Alternative 5 imo.
I personally use my computer as a TV and internet browser, so all my movie (that I download) and music is managed with the computer.
I would however get a USB DAC, something around 300$ would be great bang for the buck and offer good quality. look around the used market, you can have killer deals. You need a dac with Alternative 5 imo.
The second box from the left below the TV is my main computer (Core i5, 32 GB RAM, Radeon 7870).
Why would I need a DAC for alternative 5? The idea was to take a digital input from the PC and the cable-box, hence no DAC needed. The miniDSP 2x8 then performs the conversion to analog signal.
/Anton
My wife has rated most of the suggested designs!
I put the pics in a powerpoint and let her rate them (WAF) from her perspective on a scale from 1 to 5, where 4 (and above) is "I'd rather have them than the ones we have" and 2 (and below) is "I wouldn't let them into the house".
(I hope I don't hurt anyones feelings with this... It's a very subjective matter, and she is picky/spoiled with the speakers we own. She didn't go through her ratings, so the first ones might have been different if they were last.)
Rating: 1.
Rating: 3 if a darker color (I'm kinda surprised here.)
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 3
Rating: 1.5
Rating: 2
Rating: 2
Rating: 1.5
Rating: 4
Rating: 2
Rating: 3.5 (I asked her if it would be even better if it was just a straight box, and the answer was no).
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 3
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 1
Rating: 2
Rating: 2
Rating: 1
Rating: 1.5
Rating: 1
Rating: 2
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 3.5 (if not taller than current speakers - 110 cm)
Rating: 3.5 (they need to be tall enough so people/kids don't sit on them.)
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 2
Rating: 1
Rating: 4
Rating: 2
Rating: 3 (might be better if less deep.
Conclusions
1. No ordinary floor standers. We went through all speakers in post #20 and they recieved 2 or less.
2. On-wall is good. Line source can apparently be too (if on-wall).
3. The subwoofers need to be either hidden or disguised. I showed her this:
and she thought the subwoofer was ok, but the on-wall speaker was too much.
/Anton
I put the pics in a powerpoint and let her rate them (WAF) from her perspective on a scale from 1 to 5, where 4 (and above) is "I'd rather have them than the ones we have" and 2 (and below) is "I wouldn't let them into the house".
(I hope I don't hurt anyones feelings with this... It's a very subjective matter, and she is picky/spoiled with the speakers we own. She didn't go through her ratings, so the first ones might have been different if they were last.)
Rating: 1.
Rating: 3 if a darker color (I'm kinda surprised here.)
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 3
Rating: 1.5
Rating: 2
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Rating: 2
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Rating: 1.5
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Rating: 4
Rating: 2
Rating: 3.5 (I asked her if it would be even better if it was just a straight box, and the answer was no).
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 3
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 1
Rating: 2
Rating: 2
Rating: 1
Rating: 1.5
Rating: 1
Rating: 2
Rating: 2.5
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Rating: 3.5 (if not taller than current speakers - 110 cm)
Rating: 3.5 (they need to be tall enough so people/kids don't sit on them.)
Rating: 2.5
Rating: 2
Rating: 1
Rating: 4
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Rating: 2
Rating: 3 (might be better if less deep.
Conclusions
1. No ordinary floor standers. We went through all speakers in post #20 and they recieved 2 or less.
2. On-wall is good. Line source can apparently be too (if on-wall).
3. The subwoofers need to be either hidden or disguised. I showed her this:
and she thought the subwoofer was ok, but the on-wall speaker was too much.
/Anton
Todays renderings
This is an idea I've had for a week or so. A sleeker push-pull configuration, utilizing the IKEA 28 cm bowls and 250 mm sewage pipe (PP or PVC).
With white sphere:
With black sphere:
The matte part is a textile speaker grill.
Looks alright to me. The woofers need to be 8" to fit. Volume for each woofer is about 11 liters (0.39 cu ft), a little small for my taste...
/Anton
This is an idea I've had for a week or so. A sleeker push-pull configuration, utilizing the IKEA 28 cm bowls and 250 mm sewage pipe (PP or PVC).
With white sphere:
With black sphere:
The matte part is a textile speaker grill.
Looks alright to me. The woofers need to be 8" to fit. Volume for each woofer is about 11 liters (0.39 cu ft), a little small for my taste...
/Anton
We're #1! We're #1! BD Design OrpheanII style horn speakers get great reviews. Controlled directivity over the length of a family couch is a good thing, and horns are a very good solution when your speakers are very near both a rear wall and a side wall. Not hard to copy. Several similar succesful DIY designs are well documented. http://www.bd-design.nl/contents/media/orphean system.jpg
How much wine did your wife drink before reviewing the speaker options? I suspect that after 2-bottles the Mick Jager Lips waveguide would also get a #1 grade.
If you are commited to a small'ish coaxial speaker in a sphere, you will want to give technical consideration to having a front firing woofer as close to the sphere as possible in order to minimize lobing and maintain some control on directivity. A 200Hz Xover has a 17" quarter wavelength Center-to_Center speaker requirement for minimal lobing. The B&W engineers are very smart, and their Nautilus 800 uses front facing 10" woofers for these reasons. The MiniDSP will allow you to build a modest volume sealed woofer box and supply room equalization. A well braced, clever shaped woofer cabinet will have fewer resonant modes than a pipe.
Attachments
No wine
I'm sure they sound nice, controlled directivity is probably a good idea to reduce in-room effects (wall and ceiling reflections).
I didn't show her the "Mick Jager Lips waveguide", but I'm 99 % sure they would receive a rating of 2 or below.
/Anton
We had a discussion yesterday on how to best hide the subwoofers and came up with what you are suggesting. We like the look of the console we have now, but it could be wider without any problems. So the number 1 suggestion is to build a new (custom) console using the same fronts (IKEA bestå tofta 60x26), just buy one more. This makes the total width 3 m and the two outermost compartments subwoofers (about 40 l effective volume each), which should be suitable for 12" drivers. Maybe Dayton RSS315HO, TC Sounds Epic 12" or Seas L26ROY?You'll need a modern console speaker. That's it
Or a bigger one
See this thread, too
Speaker console project... More questions
.
Combine this with either a small speaker standing on the console (must be tall enough to have speaker at least 30 cm from surface) or on-wall speakers. These could be either full-range, coaxial or a conventional 2-way.
I'm doing a few renderings to see how it looks.
/Anton
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