Apogee Centaurs- going active

[DeltaStar]

Davey, I do have my xo set 450hz with a very sharp cut off, but they have been this way for over a yr with no problems. Anyways gonna order new ribbons, can't stand looking at them this way, so frustrating to say the least in a visual way.

 

[tyu]

That Sucks......................................look my stages ribbon have aways moved on the Nom. seting............................but thats beond!.....to bad, an thay were all stock from Apogee....well the New ribbons well have to sound better now.
Good luck

 

[tyu]

Tyu, that,s good to know my concern is point source vs line source as Apogee applied point source. IM not sure if im loosing output but im gaining control and reducing distortion.

billshuru.... hows the new MT sounding an bass box mod?
I pic up an nother pr of the minors.....the stock cloth sock that cover the 26" MT ribbon had got louse....an touch the ribbon an it got a little twised....not a lot ......on each MT.....
So has any one ever took these old MT Apogee ribbon lose at one end....?? an pulled the ribbons titer......I fear I my kill the ribbon....
what I have done for now is pull the socks..... from the back of the ribbon.....an put a small support to set the ribbon flat....Wow The ouput of the MT ribbon went up.....an the sound got a lot better.....sounds better than the MT in my other minors & Stages... there ribbon are like new ....
Like Africa posted about the ribbon support he uses.....im gaining control and reducing distortion......best sound ever....
So has anyone with the Apogee Stage are minors .... or any with the 26" MT ever add support to these ribbon??
Thanks

 

[billshurv]

New ribbons have bedded in magnificently, but the rest of the project has stalled until time and funds available.

Ref tensioning I think its 96g.

I've still not been tempted to fit the suspension pieces on my ribbon.

 

[tyu]

Now on the Re-tensioning in my case......this is the frist old type Mt....that had the bar you can take lose.....an then pull the ribbon titer.....did you ever do this with you older MT ribbon??......I gess if I do this the bottem bar will have had the least stress...what do you think?............in one of your pic...I see you added a peace of Aloumom.....did your ribbon tair there when you pulled the bar off to retensioning of the old MT?....if you ever did this.............
Thanks for all an any input ....



What I have found is with the suspension peace... it well as you know pull the ribbon Back.....from top ....an at the bottem....I have played with adding a suport to the front of the ribbon .....so it pushes the ribbon back like it would if you put the suspension pieces in the back... same 11" up from the bottem..one thing it dose is give hight to the image...this I thought all along ....an with the newer type Mt..... with the magnets going all the way top an bottem of the frame.....help stop the ribbon from movement....that may rip the ribbon....the added mag well give more output...
the old Mt ribbon setup has less stress at the top an bottem ....becase the magnets don't go all the way .....one mans thinking..

 

[Africa]

billshuru.... hows the new MT sounding an bass box mod?
I pic up an nother pr of the minors.....the stock cloth sock that cover the 26" MT ribbon had got louse....an touch the ribbon an it got a little twised....not a lot ......on each MT.....
So has any one ever took these old MT Apogee ribbon lose at one end....?? an pulled the ribbons titer......I fear I my kill the ribbon....
what I have done for now is pull the socks..... from the back of the ribbon.....an put a small support to set the ribbon flat....Wow The ouput of the MT ribbon went up.....an the sound got a lot better.....sounds better than the MT in my other minors & Stages... there ribbon are like new ....
Like Africa posted about the ribbon support he uses.....im gaining control and reducing distortion......best sound ever....
So has anyone with the Apogee Stage are minors .... or any with the 26" MT ever add support to these ribbon??
Thanks

Hi Bill, just my 2 cents worth iv owned the Apogee Diva,s and i found the MR use to flap so my design of bracing every 7" was based on reducing distorsion and giving the ribbon the ability to go much lower with control with all the necessary dynamics.

 

[tyu]

Well I say it like 1-2 db more output.....but most likey... the ribbon is fiting the magnet gap better....when the ribbon is flat you get max output....every 7"....But that was longer ribbon than the 26"....I do think the 26" MT used in the Stage An the two Cent speakers......was a clame to fame....An minny say was the best ribbon Apogee made..
well we know it was ezery to drive than anyother....with my support my MT.... my 60 tube amp can realy rock.... Vary cool subport mod...an you can go back an forth ezely.......

By the way I did find out why my ribbon has always moved all over the place...........it was the feet...the adjustable back bolt has to be Tite....this after 5 pr of Stages.........so any one that has had movement in the ribbons well gine a lot from this subport mod....because with movement the ribbon is no longer flat to the gap....means less ouput......

 

[billshurv]

Now on the Re-tensioning in my case......this is the frist old type Mt....that had the bar you can take lose.....an then pull the ribbon titer.....did you ever do this with you older MT ribbon??......I gess if I do this the bottem bar will have had the least stress...what do you think?............in one of your pic...I see you added a peace of Aloumom.....did your ribbon tair there when you pulled the bar off to retensioning of the old MT?....if you ever did this.............
Thanks for all an any input ....

I cannot remember which end I tensioned at TBH. The foil in the photos shows my running repairs. Aluminium is as we all now a metal that doesn't like being flexed, so had failed at the clamp point. I retensioned AFTER taking them apart to fix the breaks in the ribbon. Copper would be better for ribbons but brings its own problems. The bar itself does not stick to the ribbon, so can be safely loosened.

 

[billshurv]

Hi Bill, just my 2 cents worth iv owned the Apogee Diva,s and i found the MR use to flap so my design of bracing every 7" was based on reducing distorsion and giving the ribbon the ability to go much lower with control with all the necessary dynamics.

It's contentious for sure. Graz does not recommend the supports unless you need the power handling. As they are like a dog, not just for xmas I didn't want to fit them unless I found a lot of flapping going on.

Bear in mind I have 26" ribbons in a small room and only sit 2m from them. I am not trying to meet the spec 105dB at 3m.

If once I actually get my Round Tuit I try pushing the ribbons down nearer 500Hz I may just need that extra support. If it was a reversable mod I would do it.

 

[tyu]

Ok thanks... so the bars well come free...... I don't like the oneway trip supports myself....but I do like the hight to image .....but with your new MT.....I think your as good as it well ever be.....output an soundwise...
as you know these older ribbons get lose an swested....
I never thought of just adding a little support to the back would give better output an sound...but the magnet & ribbon must line up for full output

 

[tyu]

One Big dif.....is in the bass.. smooth...sweet..i gess the ribbons... more output matches the bass better
I took the supports out just now.....Wow....
at frist ..days back I thought...this cant be right it was so diff.....but now theres know way to go back... much biger stage...
I well be adding supports to my Apogees Stages.....all this supports dose is just touch the back of the ribbon.......

 

[tyu]

These MT ribbon are like floodlights....................are head lights on a car....get them set right an you well be rewarded with coherent sound staging,an deep image..sweet tone............an full output out of these older Apogee MT ribbons
Ezey 25% inproverment......over all....
Now Magnepans ribbons .......Not so much.....there all over the place..an there nailed down every 2"..well mine move like a sale in the wind.....wind can kill there ribbons..there lucky that sound as good as thay do...I just got new ribbon for My maggys.....there already move an defuseing the sound....the Apogee sound so much better.....
I was thinking about adding one of my Minors MT to a pr of maggys....but now I see what going on with there ribbons....there moveing from feedback from the base/mid driver....only fix would be to put there ribbon in a sepret frame.....Not!
Justsaying

 

[tyu]

ok well I pulled the MT ribbons out of the Minors........pull the slack out of the ribbon.......all I can say is what a diff it made...the sound stage got a lot biger......image much clearer......my room...18'X25'X13'.......speakers setup... 12'inside to inside....12'off the front wall....my one chair that is all that's in the room is 2' off the back wall....
After owning Apogee Duetta sig 1pr....Stages 5pr....Minors 2pr.....the higher Minor crossover point.... is the best sound I have ever heard out of any Apogee ribbon type speakers....yes the Stage an the biger Apogee fullrang ribbons do more in the way of blowing you mind ....with just one big image..thay just don't have the sweetnes.......An none can be driven to full out put with a 60 year old Pr of Dyanco MK3s like the Centaur Minors...... next is the Stages.....gives the big images that all the other fullrang Apogees.... but can be driven with 100watts....then after that thay get to heavy to move.... most well buzz.... an most well only have one amp that well maybe drive the speaker right .........
but all lot of fun......

 

[DeltaStar]

tyu, I did that a week ago on my Diva midrange, was easy to do at the top as they are clamp compression held in place on the contact points of the returns. Had to release the support suspension and reglue when tensioned, all in all a simple job. They sound very good and are stable. I do have new one's coming from Graz, but will keep them for spares. The retensioning idea is only a one time thing due to the corrugation, in my case was 3/8" loss of ribbon lenght to desired tension.

 

[sahranna]

Retensioning the mt-ribbon

Hi tyu, how did you exactly determine how tight you had to pull the ribbons? Did you use something like the 92,8 (or 96?) grams to pull the ribbon straight like Graz and the Manual are recommending or did you trust your feelings?? I own a pair of Minors myself and I'm about to refurbish them, so your advice would be very welcome.

 

[billshurv]

If you want I can lend you my tensioning pot.

 

[tyu]

trust my feeling............I had no tensioning pot......my pr were vary lose....I only did it from the top only ...............I just loosened the two top screws ....so I could vary ezely then work the black peace of plastic lose from the ribbon.....I did not take the screws out ...when the black peace was lose from the ribbon.... I just ezzed the white plastic back....it has the wires in it.....it dose not take much............you can line it up by eye.....don't over titn the screws when done.....................................................
big diff in sound................new speaker in my case...
one reson I did this.... on the minors the crossover point is so hight that you get little move ment even when pushed......the stages an centur crossover are the same.............lower...there can be move ment.

was going to do my Stages.....but the setup is be way diff....but still may go for it...
but my stage MT still look new...........
not my MT in the pic.....thanks bill......good luck

 

[sahranna]

@ billshurv: Thats a really nice offer, but unfortunately I live in Germany, so it's a bit difficult to get your tensioning pot lent... But maybe you can give some more information or post a picture, that would be surely very helpful!

@ tyu; Thanks a lot for your reply. I also did the tensioning "by feeling", but I would feel safer if I knew the exact amount of the tensioning weight in grams. I'm a bit a pedantic, I know...

 

[tyu]

Graz....Has made his MT ribbons......for the Minors an Stages.... to be monted without the stock black bars.....at the top an bottem....just puts the bolts in so the ribbon it self... is not held down........this well sound better.....
well I think the Stock MT can be ran also with out the bars.....for a better sound...
right.........maybe sometime?
I have one of my minors running with out the bars like Graz....an one with the stock bars.......the Graz setup....sounds more extended......are the bars..a little horn?...........there to stop the upword output of the ribbon .....?
I gess i pull the bars off the other one.........it been about 10day...seems to work fine ......I gess if I don't go I wont no!
some one wont to tell me...........Why i should not do this.............?
pic 1 of bill.....like all stock Minors MT with the black bars.....
Bill with new Graz setup........look ma no bars.....................thanks bill
thanks for any an all input............

 

[Africa]

Tyu, I dont believe the bars restricts extension as my ribbon gets to 30khz -9db and -3db at 20khz. I would like you to measure graz ribbons properly and lets see how it performs against my ribbon. My measures fairly flat from 300hz to 20khz im at a maximum of -4db across this frequency. Tyu do you have measuring equipment as I would really like to see his ribbons performance.

Maybe Linesource can share his wisdom with us on this topic.

Regards

Brian