Well, in my experience i never have seen a clients MR or TW ribbon cracked close to the bars. Except short time after installation of new ones by myself.
The problem with bars is the pressure is not constant if the bar screws are tightened too much, the bar will bend, no more pressure in the middle and thus the middle ali stripe can crack, but this only for the 3 stripe TW from Duetta and Diva.
In the meantime there is a solution to avoid this.
I have seen cracked client ribs , but again, not at the bars.
Apogee foils are alu only for the MR / TW for Scintilla, FR and Diva TW.
All others are Alloy !
Like all apo foil woofers.
The woofers can crack, but very rarely and the place where they crack is randomized.
AllTW types mounted on the epoxy board have no real issues there.
Never have seen those blue raisers for installing, but what do i know , those i have seen were only for transport of new ribs preventing damage, not for use.
BTW: If you like Minor more than Duettas, so be it.
IMHO if the needed space is there, a Duetta is Ferrari, the Minor is good Fiat.
The Scintilla is another league again, but you need a real Amplifier to drive them, while Minors or Stages can be driven with any good quality 100 Watt thingie.
Actually i have Duettas at home, they replaced Majors due blown woofers.
The problem with bars is the pressure is not constant if the bar screws are tightened too much, the bar will bend, no more pressure in the middle and thus the middle ali stripe can crack, but this only for the 3 stripe TW from Duetta and Diva.
In the meantime there is a solution to avoid this.
I have seen cracked client ribs , but again, not at the bars.
Apogee foils are alu only for the MR / TW for Scintilla, FR and Diva TW.
All others are Alloy !
Like all apo foil woofers.
The woofers can crack, but very rarely and the place where they crack is randomized.
AllTW types mounted on the epoxy board have no real issues there.
Never have seen those blue raisers for installing, but what do i know , those i have seen were only for transport of new ribs preventing damage, not for use.
BTW: If you like Minor more than Duettas, so be it.
IMHO if the needed space is there, a Duetta is Ferrari, the Minor is good Fiat.
The Scintilla is another league again, but you need a real Amplifier to drive them, while Minors or Stages can be driven with any good quality 100 Watt thingie.
Actually i have Duettas at home, they replaced Majors due blown woofers.
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The 'blue risers' are just cork board tacks for transit. The ribbons are shipped unstretched (most nerve wracking part of the install).
I would love to be able to give house space to duettas, but they cost $$$$ here in uk and my poor little room is too small. The minors are a good compromise, even if I have days when I wonder why I didn't just build a linkwitz LX mini!!!
If you look earlier in this thread you can see pics of my old ribbons and the clear fracture across where the bars go. Sample of one as I say
I would love to be able to give house space to duettas, but they cost $$$$ here in uk and my poor little room is too small. The minors are a good compromise, even if I have days when I wonder why I didn't just build a linkwitz LX mini!!!
If you look earlier in this thread you can see pics of my old ribbons and the clear fracture across where the bars go. Sample of one as I say
Ok, so this really the first one i could see.
In your room of course the minor is better than a duetta.
Minors have a very good spatial presentation and are very well balanced.
I always missed some bass, but thats normal when you live with scintillas
Maybe your new woofers handle this better. Hope so for you.
In your room of course the minor is better than a duetta.
Minors have a very good spatial presentation and are very well balanced.
I always missed some bass, but thats normal when you live with scintillas
Maybe your new woofers handle this better. Hope so for you.
I have had the Duetta sig.....the Stages..an Minors..my bud had the Diva....in the 90s.............
All were sent back to Apogee an re-worket with all new ribbons....
I was in the Audio biz at that time.........
My Amps were at that time the Krell MDA 500.....With the Krell KBX crossover..
My room then was smller than now...then I had a 14'x18'....to day I have a 18'x25'........With in a year the Duettas were buzzing.....The 5 pr of Stages I have owne from the 90s till now never Buzzzzzzzzz.....not one pr.....
Not one pr...............
Back then I sold the Minors......thay were a joke to me....the Duettas an the Stages with the all krell setup kill the minors......!that that........
But what this ALL has to do with the 26" MT.....you got me..
Ive have found to day..... I lov the sound of tubes...the Stages an the minors can be driven with 50-100watt tube amps.....some time to me...less is More!
Sure hope No one here minzzzz.....Gezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzza
But some time back on CL a guy had a pr of Stages.....that were on CL for 6week...the guy never even got a call on the Stages.......I gave him $400. US...that the 5th pr for me from then till now....same as with the Minors....gave $250. for one pr...$200 for the others....I think ....vary little...I got them just for the ribbons....thought if my Stages MT went....for that little $$ that were like free to me.....................
So I been down the road of the big Apogee... an the 150 lb amps...an the water filled cabes..............that sound [canbe]... as good as it gets..............
But I well not have the Buzzzzzzzzzzz .......... an today could never move them.... an set them up..............so that out for me....
Stages minors yes!
What all this means too an one ...an my point here....hehe I don't know!
Then bill got his New ribbons........I never had seen any New ribbon .....Then I got this last pr of the minors..........the MT sock had got lose over time...an the MT ribbon had became lose............so I pulled MT off to see IF I could fix...bill told me I could.....that the bars would come off with out riping the MT....so I got the MT retichon....look like new....sounded better than the other pr.....
So I got to looking at the Setup of monting the Garz new 26"ribbon....
An said to my self............. I can do that with the Stock ribbons....
An here we are.................So I came here to give feed back on what I was hearing ....................As Better..Diff....Sound........
Then as happens.....groove....came by with his 2cent...thank you for that....then DS..........Mr Big Room.......... ..AKA the buzzzzz...came by to add nothing.......just what ever about his new ribbon....not for the Stages are the Minors................an I gess he new nothing about the 26" ribbons
But he seems to know all things....hehe that good for him ...but did nothing to add to the info I was looking for....................
An he still has not put up one pic of his new ribbon.....Wow...hehe good luck
All were sent back to Apogee an re-worket with all new ribbons....
I was in the Audio biz at that time.........
My Amps were at that time the Krell MDA 500.....With the Krell KBX crossover..
My room then was smller than now...then I had a 14'x18'....to day I have a 18'x25'........With in a year the Duettas were buzzing.....The 5 pr of Stages I have owne from the 90s till now never Buzzzzzzzzz.....not one pr.....
Not one pr...............
Back then I sold the Minors......thay were a joke to me....the Duettas an the Stages with the all krell setup kill the minors......!that that........
But what this ALL has to do with the 26" MT.....you got me..
Ive have found to day..... I lov the sound of tubes...the Stages an the minors can be driven with 50-100watt tube amps.....some time to me...less is More!
Sure hope No one here minzzzz.....Gezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzza
But some time back on CL a guy had a pr of Stages.....that were on CL for 6week...the guy never even got a call on the Stages.......I gave him $400. US...that the 5th pr for me from then till now....same as with the Minors....gave $250. for one pr...$200 for the others....I think ....vary little...I got them just for the ribbons....thought if my Stages MT went....for that little $$ that were like free to me.....................
So I been down the road of the big Apogee... an the 150 lb amps...an the water filled cabes..............that sound [canbe]... as good as it gets..............
But I well not have the Buzzzzzzzzzzz .......... an today could never move them.... an set them up..............so that out for me....
Stages minors yes!
What all this means too an one ...an my point here....hehe I don't know!
Then bill got his New ribbons........I never had seen any New ribbon .....Then I got this last pr of the minors..........the MT sock had got lose over time...an the MT ribbon had became lose............so I pulled MT off to see IF I could fix...bill told me I could.....that the bars would come off with out riping the MT....so I got the MT retichon....look like new....sounded better than the other pr.....
So I got to looking at the Setup of monting the Garz new 26"ribbon....
An said to my self............. I can do that with the Stock ribbons....
An here we are.................So I came here to give feed back on what I was hearing ....................As Better..Diff....Sound........
Then as happens.....groove....came by with his 2cent...thank you for that....then DS..........Mr Big Room.......... ..AKA the buzzzzz...came by to add nothing.......just what ever about his new ribbon....not for the Stages are the Minors................an I gess he new nothing about the 26" ribbons
But he seems to know all things....hehe that good for him ...but did nothing to add to the info I was looking for....................
An he still has not put up one pic of his new ribbon.....Wow...hehe good luck
Groove..........who are you posting about here...
If you like Minor more than Duettas, so be it.
IMHO if the needed space is there, a Duetta is Ferrari, the Minor is good Fiat.
The Scintilla is another league again, but you need a real Amplifier to drive them, while Minors or Stages can be driven with any good quality 100 Watt thingie.
I did say...............
I don't have Diva,s............never well.....to big ...BUZZ
this is about the Stage An Minors.....Best MT Apogee ever made....CAN be driven with 50 watts...same ribbon.....like in the pic..hehe
look less don't make up info.....
Any of the Fullrang Apogee Ribbon speakers I have heard....sound better than most any other speaker!
But my Acoustat ESL are vary good.....an thay never Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
So here the take away.....with the bar off the 26" MT
The minors sound is Better than that of my Stages 26" MT with the bars ON...
an the sound of this mod....is a lot closer to the sound I get out of the fullrang Apogee....no more..no less..
If you like Minor more than Duettas, so be it.
IMHO if the needed space is there, a Duetta is Ferrari, the Minor is good Fiat.
The Scintilla is another league again, but you need a real Amplifier to drive them, while Minors or Stages can be driven with any good quality 100 Watt thingie.
I did say...............
I don't have Diva,s............never well.....to big ...BUZZ
this is about the Stage An Minors.....Best MT Apogee ever made....CAN be driven with 50 watts...same ribbon.....like in the pic..hehe
look less don't make up info.....
Any of the Fullrang Apogee Ribbon speakers I have heard....sound better than most any other speaker!
But my Acoustat ESL are vary good.....an thay never Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
So here the take away.....with the bar off the 26" MT
The minors sound is Better than that of my Stages 26" MT with the bars ON...
an the sound of this mod....is a lot closer to the sound I get out of the fullrang Apogee....no more..no less..
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Now less look as to why the Stages MT may sound Darker an has less output ........
You see that in Apogee stock mont.....we got two diff monts...one at the end of the MT ribbon.....thays bolted down from the back.....with pressure...who knows how much...........then the free hanging part.........of the ribbon it self..........is ran under the bar mont to another board....gezzs
The New Garz monts do a way with all this..............with No bars...well this sound better???
I say yes.....some may say No!....but if thay ever have to replace the ribbon
well have to live with the new mont!....mabe as we know now....the blue risers are not what thay look like.....thanks for that.....even thought it did not matter the new mont stll dose the same as if that were there....NO Bars..
So thay could just put the bars back on the new board.....hehe
One mod I well.... be doing to the stock mont setup is to remove the bolts from out of the top mont..... that has the wire to hold it in place....that well releve some stress on that board.... but the ribbon all folded over....well it is what it is...pic not that good but you can see.....pic 3 is new MT mont...
All this for me is just to get the best sound out of some of the best speakers ever made...........................an have fun doing it...hehe
You see that in Apogee stock mont.....we got two diff monts...one at the end of the MT ribbon.....thays bolted down from the back.....with pressure...who knows how much...........then the free hanging part.........of the ribbon it self..........is ran under the bar mont to another board....gezzs
The New Garz monts do a way with all this..............with No bars...well this sound better???
I say yes.....some may say No!....but if thay ever have to replace the ribbon
well have to live with the new mont!....mabe as we know now....the blue risers are not what thay look like.....thanks for that.....even thought it did not matter the new mont stll dose the same as if that were there....NO Bars..
So thay could just put the bars back on the new board.....hehe
One mod I well.... be doing to the stock mont setup is to remove the bolts from out of the top mont..... that has the wire to hold it in place....that well releve some stress on that board.... but the ribbon all folded over....well it is what it is...pic not that good but you can see.....pic 3 is new MT mont...
All this for me is just to get the best sound out of some of the best speakers ever made...........................an have fun doing it...hehe
Attachments
![459703d1421448288-apogee-centaurs-going-active-endplate[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/449/449215-67efd354dbfe85f4ec3bdd53e03f2932.jpg)
PROVE to you I have them...............
that was not my point...I not here Prove anything to anyone..........should you be?...it wont work any way...
others or myself..... have no way of knowing what thay look like..................hehe
an this dose nothing to show the mont...an how there monted...what the older ribbons look like when monted..............But there guy saleing that same ribbon for $100.for the pr....
good luck with that.......................................buzzzzzzzy
that was not my point...I not here Prove anything to anyone..........should you be?...it wont work any way...
others or myself..... have no way of knowing what thay look like..................hehe
an this dose nothing to show the mont...an how there monted...what the older ribbons look like when monted..............But there guy saleing that same ribbon for $100.for the pr....
good luck with that.......................................buzzzzzzzy
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Whats with the sarcasm, grow up, There's a reason Apogee engineers used that bar system, it removes the strain on the mount plate where traces are attached to, the tensioning of the ribbon is between the bars!!!!! NOT the mount plate, I'm not very intelligent, BUT even I can see that, and it's a good system to me. ALSO getting sick of ALL big fullrange buzz, thats not so!!! depends on climate and enviroment. Don't run something down because you don't like it or can't afford it.
"Whats with the sarcasm, grow up"
Wow you sound like a Hater......are you a hater..+1...hehe...
In this great Apogee post you have add not one thing............on the Minors....about ways to get better sound..................0..
There's a reason Apogee engineers used that bar system, it removes the strain on the mount plate where traces are attached to, the tensioning of the ribbon is between the bars!!!!! NOT the mount plate, I'm not very intelligent, BUT even I can see that, and it's a good system
look this is to be fun... you got to be jokeing agine...hehe....an you know this how?...heres some news for you...................
Apogee not in biz anymore.......An Mr Garz the only man still standing ....must think the bars are not needed for good sound.................on the Stages An the Minors.....he dose not use them...an sends new washers to be used....so your the one that..
needs to read the posts..............an not just jump in with your all knowing all things Apogee an any other thing you post about....
look you live with a room..what 30'X60' with bair walls..that you have posted pic of .... that looks to me, has to sound like a echo chamber....no one can go by any thing... about what you hear...
No one has.. are lives with a room like that!
Good luck............don't read my post buzzzzy...
An yes your over 20years stock....... bass driver well be buzzzzzzzzzzing
Why don't you run a sweep on your bass drivers......Fear...........right you got buzzzzzzzzzzing
But in you echo chamber you can hear it!
then You can spend your big money..hehe on have some new driver put in....No thanks
Wow you sound like a Hater......are you a hater..+1...hehe...
In this great Apogee post you have add not one thing............on the Minors....about ways to get better sound..................0..
There's a reason Apogee engineers used that bar system, it removes the strain on the mount plate where traces are attached to, the tensioning of the ribbon is between the bars!!!!! NOT the mount plate, I'm not very intelligent, BUT even I can see that, and it's a good system
look this is to be fun... you got to be jokeing agine...hehe....an you know this how?...heres some news for you...................
Apogee not in biz anymore.......An Mr Garz the only man still standing ....must think the bars are not needed for good sound.................on the Stages An the Minors.....he dose not use them...an sends new washers to be used....so your the one that..
needs to read the posts..............an not just jump in with your all knowing all things Apogee an any other thing you post about....
look you live with a room..what 30'X60' with bair walls..that you have posted pic of .... that looks to me, has to sound like a echo chamber....no one can go by any thing... about what you hear...
No one has.. are lives with a room like that!
Good luck............don't read my post buzzzzy...
An yes your over 20years stock....... bass driver well be buzzzzzzzzzzing
Why don't you run a sweep on your bass drivers......Fear...........right you got buzzzzzzzzzzing
But in you echo chamber you can hear it!
then You can spend your big money..hehe on have some new driver put in....No thanks
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tyu, I can't remember you being here to listen to my systems in my big room, it's bigger than that by the way, ALSO it don't echo at all, matter of fact there's a program on the internet you put in the exact dimmensions and it rates the room, it rated excellent, found it truely amazing just what a lousy 3 in does in any direction, anyways, I'm leaving my Stages stock other than the xo upgrades I did, Also MY APOGEE'S DO NOT BUZZ. so please no more buzzzzzzzzzzzing, unless you have bee's So please stop stomping on the full range models, I said the 26" MT had good sound for what it is.
So please stop stomping on the full range models, I said the 26" MT had good sound for what it is.Right.........It all about you.... only... ever....Hehe....
.........an what you have done to your stages....Who cares...you added a cap...Wow
Hope you like them...........
The 26" New Garz...or Stock MT is...That is What everone ....But you... has been posting about....Hehe.....
An your not running my show........don't tell other what to do.
Maybe there in your echo chamber ...your the man....but youll just be... Buzzy to me from now own.....hehe............
don't be a Hater....you need to liten up....hehe
Dont respond to my post.....less you need some more Buzzzzzzzzzzzzing
............thanks
.........an what you have done to your stages....Who cares...you added a cap...Wow
Hope you like them...........
The 26" New Garz...or Stock MT is...That is What everone ....But you... has been posting about....Hehe.....
An your not running my show........don't tell other what to do.
Maybe there in your echo chamber ...your the man....but youll just be... Buzzy to me from now own.....hehe............
don't be a Hater....you need to liten up....hehe
Dont respond to my post.....less you need some more Buzzzzzzzzzzzzing
............thanks
Graz new clamping system for Duetta and Diva uses metal bars.
Works fine, sounds better then the previous Delrin bars.
For minors and other multistripe TW there exist no raisers. No blue ones nor other color.
That stuff is for transport only.
No bar or bar, what sounds better? No idea, i must be deaf. That why i hear no buzz on my duettas.
But my stages in the closet do buzz, both. Thats why they are there.
Currently im going on do fix my Full Range with new ribbons on all 3 ways and new transformers.
But first i have a customers diva to fix and a scintilla is also waiting.
They are 25 years old and need to be restored.
Thereafter the sun will shine again for them and their customers.
Works fine, sounds better then the previous Delrin bars.
For minors and other multistripe TW there exist no raisers. No blue ones nor other color.
That stuff is for transport only.
No bar or bar, what sounds better? No idea, i must be deaf. That why i hear no buzz on my duettas.
But my stages in the closet do buzz, both. Thats why they are there.
Currently im going on do fix my Full Range with new ribbons on all 3 ways and new transformers.
But first i have a customers diva to fix and a scintilla is also waiting.
They are 25 years old and need to be restored.
Thereafter the sun will shine again for them and their customers.
Graz new clamping system for Duetta and Diva uses metal bars.
Works fine, sounds better then the previous Delrin bars
I cant see Graz doing anything to make his new replacement ribbons Sound bad..
I don't see anyway to not use a bar on the bigger ribbons,,,, like with the 26"..But what do I know....
But all these ribbons are Vary Sensitive ....add are chang any thing make a diff..
Like Dave said.....all this is old news....
I saw a pr Centaur for sale today....$300.
I gess I go for them....the 8" driver well be new for me....thanks
Works fine, sounds better then the previous Delrin bars
I cant see Graz doing anything to make his new replacement ribbons Sound bad..
I don't see anyway to not use a bar on the bigger ribbons,,,, like with the 26"..But what do I know....
But all these ribbons are Vary Sensitive ....add are chang any thing make a diff..
Like Dave said.....all this is old news....
I saw a pr Centaur for sale today....$300.
I gess I go for them....the 8" driver well be new for me....thanks
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My stages both woofers are definitive buzzing.
I know where the problem comes from and it would be huge effort to modify them to avoid the problem with new woofer foils.
But since there are no new foils available for them, it makes no sense to modify.
So they stay where they are now, i don't like to ride on a dead horse.
I know where the problem comes from and it would be huge effort to modify them to avoid the problem with new woofer foils.
But since there are no new foils available for them, it makes no sense to modify.
So they stay where they are now, i don't like to ride on a dead horse.
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