Yes, there is no x-over components in my 2-way book shelf speakers. I use REW for (1). signal channel split & x-over high/low-pass filters, (2). room corrections. I believe the bottleneck of my speaker system were the passive x-over components and room-effects.
I really LOVE the sound quality and price of Allo products (including AMP, DACs, Digione... ). So, I have confidence on your DSP solutions.
While approaching this, there are few options I considered:
[1] Dayton DSP408 (4-ch analogue in / 8-ch analogue out, I bought 2):
Pros: easy to work with old stereo rigs. easy setting with PC. Not expensive ($160 USD)
Cons: Car-audio level sounds. line-level Auto-on-trigger not working well. A-D-A extra signal path.
[2] MiniDSP 2x4 HD (2-ch digital optic in/ 4-ch analogue out. I had 1):
Pros: easy to set up. digital in. Not expensive ($200 USD)
Cons: Car-audio level sounds. only 4 channels out. Ir remote difficult to use (no UI to show what setting is currently on).
[3] Okto DAC8 (I don't have any)
likely-Pros: good measurements
likely-Cons: 1000 euro unit, need extra PC+REW-SW to control. 4~8 week waiting after ordering.
[4] Hypex FA252/FA253 panel amp with DSP (I don't have any)
likely-Pros: all-in-one including amps. reasonable price (800~1000 euro /pair)
likely-Cons: not sure about measurements and sound quality. Low confidence on its life-time. panel amps tends to die after 3~5yr and could be difficult to replace them.
Components & prices (not including shipping nor import taxes):
*. Tweeter = Wavecor TW022WA06, $160 USD/pair
*. Woofer = Dayton ES180TiA, $250 USD/pair
*. Cabinets = 14mm Birch Plywood + custom paints, $300 USD/pair
*. DSP/DA = MiniDSP 2x4HD, $200 UDS
*. Amplifier = Allo+, Allo+D, $240 USD
*. (Mic = Dayton OmniMic V2, $300 USD)
I really LOVE the sound quality and price of Allo products (including AMP, DACs, Digione... ). So, I have confidence on your DSP solutions.
While approaching this, there are few options I considered:
[1] Dayton DSP408 (4-ch analogue in / 8-ch analogue out, I bought 2):
Pros: easy to work with old stereo rigs. easy setting with PC. Not expensive ($160 USD)
Cons: Car-audio level sounds. line-level Auto-on-trigger not working well. A-D-A extra signal path.
[2] MiniDSP 2x4 HD (2-ch digital optic in/ 4-ch analogue out. I had 1):
Pros: easy to set up. digital in. Not expensive ($200 USD)
Cons: Car-audio level sounds. only 4 channels out. Ir remote difficult to use (no UI to show what setting is currently on).
[3] Okto DAC8 (I don't have any)
likely-Pros: good measurements
likely-Cons: 1000 euro unit, need extra PC+REW-SW to control. 4~8 week waiting after ordering.
[4] Hypex FA252/FA253 panel amp with DSP (I don't have any)
likely-Pros: all-in-one including amps. reasonable price (800~1000 euro /pair)
likely-Cons: not sure about measurements and sound quality. Low confidence on its life-time. panel amps tends to die after 3~5yr and could be difficult to replace them.
Components & prices (not including shipping nor import taxes):
*. Tweeter = Wavecor TW022WA06, $160 USD/pair
*. Woofer = Dayton ES180TiA, $250 USD/pair
*. Cabinets = 14mm Birch Plywood + custom paints, $300 USD/pair
*. DSP/DA = MiniDSP 2x4HD, $200 UDS
*. Amplifier = Allo+, Allo+D, $240 USD
*. (Mic = Dayton OmniMic V2, $300 USD)
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There are a lot of people looking for multi-channel DSP and DAC solutions for their digital crossover speaker projects. People come asking for that in the 'digital line' subforum. Some people are using cheap A/D->DSP->D/A boxes with low quality converters, clocks, power, etc. They do that because that's all there is they can buy, except a for a very few boxes priced up around a few thousand dollars. MiniDSP is not much better than the cheap Dayton audio boxes, either.
That is so true we need a good dsp solution. dayton and minidsp are indeed of poor quality and come with high signal distortion in electronic domain. However, while considering most passive xover parts : inductor, resistor, and capacitor, are cheap stuff that even generate more distortion sonic-wise. If we consider room effects, that's even worse.
cheap dsp xover does perform poorly electronically, but considering final physical Soundwave distortions, I believe the 200 dsp is still better than the passive xover in the 2000 level speakers, like PMC, dyna, bw...
and this is why I am expecting allo solutions.
cheap dsp xover does perform poorly electronically, but considering final physical Soundwave distortions, I believe the 200 dsp is still better than the passive xover in the 2000 level speakers, like PMC, dyna, bw...
and this is why I am expecting allo solutions.
One possible partial solution might be to follow the Boss2 with a second hat (or third . . .) that could process channels 3 and 4. The first dac in the stack would control the communications with the RPi and the software (being the Boss), and each dac would process two channels and output the analog signals. Not dead simple, and it would need a bunch of firmware, but it might be a reasonably inexpensive path to good quality multichannel output.
Hi, @cdsgames
Indeed people who will access DSP is only a fraction of audiophiles. But the "many hours" may be not so true, especially when you try to make your own speakers (DSP saves lots of time on design, assemble, and tunning).
(1) most speaker diyers spend 50% time on x-over design in asia (we order cabinets from studios,
). DSP/active-x-over saves lots of time with extra flexibility to adjust after deploy (loudness for high/low volume, theater mode ..).
(2) 2.1 DSP is no big difference from multi-channels active x-over (only more channel split). Your new product can satisfy every group (a). who only need 2.1 filter, (b) who need DRC, (c) people need all + active x-over
(3) studio like GR Research has popular and economic speaker kits (their speaker drivers seem manufactured in India as well). If you prepare filter/setting files for each model (also for A.O.S., parts-express, or madisounds) I don't think speaker DIYers can resist the Allo reputation. And it also helps on selling Allo amps. (they fit active x-over projects so well). There are not too many competitors.
*. for $200 DSP, you can directly replace passive x-over (a good passive x-over cost this for parts)
*. $1000 price is for quality demanding customers
*. for $500, this could be the sweet spot for everyone.
well, that's my 2cents
Indeed people who will access DSP is only a fraction of audiophiles. But the "many hours" may be not so true, especially when you try to make your own speakers (DSP saves lots of time on design, assemble, and tunning).
(1) most speaker diyers spend 50% time on x-over design in asia (we order cabinets from studios,
). DSP/active-x-over saves lots of time with extra flexibility to adjust after deploy (loudness for high/low volume, theater mode ..).(2) 2.1 DSP is no big difference from multi-channels active x-over (only more channel split). Your new product can satisfy every group (a). who only need 2.1 filter, (b) who need DRC, (c) people need all + active x-over
(3) studio like GR Research has popular and economic speaker kits (their speaker drivers seem manufactured in India as well). If you prepare filter/setting files for each model (also for A.O.S., parts-express, or madisounds) I don't think speaker DIYers can resist the Allo reputation. And it also helps on selling Allo amps. (they fit active x-over projects so well). There are not too many competitors.
*. for $200 DSP, you can directly replace passive x-over (a good passive x-over cost this for parts)
*. $1000 price is for quality demanding customers
*. for $500, this could be the sweet spot for everyone.
well, that's my 2cents
Since decades all the geniuses out there do not get 2 channel stereo (DACs) properly
to play, and now some (luckily a very few) dreamers start dreaming about highly DSPed
multichannel playback.
OK. I understand. It's a matter of "target group". But that market is addressed by a very experienced mini-dsp brand. Good luck with challenging them.
@ Allo. Save your energies! If you start ""reading books"" now. I am sure you gonna waste a lot of energy and money. And you'll fail. There'll be a lot of software design and documentation involved. That's also not your strong side as far as I see it. A high risk project!
If you really want to do something interesting. Have a look at the full digital amps /power DACs. Since you're now into amps as it seems, walk the extra mile and design a full digital one. We talked about it a couple of years back.
Good luck.
to play, and now some (luckily a very few) dreamers start dreaming about highly DSPed
multichannel playback.
OK. I understand. It's a matter of "target group". But that market is addressed by a very experienced mini-dsp brand. Good luck with challenging them.
@ Allo. Save your energies! If you start ""reading books"" now. I am sure you gonna waste a lot of energy and money. And you'll fail. There'll be a lot of software design and documentation involved. That's also not your strong side as far as I see it. A high risk project!
If you really want to do something interesting. Have a look at the full digital amps /power DACs. Since you're now into amps as it seems, walk the extra mile and design a full digital one. We talked about it a couple of years back.
Good luck.
Carstenan that looks like an awesome project...I am sure it sounds amazing .
However its a very involved project that prob took many , many hours . Frankly not everyone has your dedication
Our first hardware will be more about a 2.1 systems with full DSP capabilities .
Hi,
You already have the Piano Dac, it has dsp, isn’t it?
So you have some experience on it.
Hi @cdsgames,
the question has been repeatedly asked about the compatibility of USBBRIDGE SIGNATURE and CONDITIONERPI from Ian @iancanada (DocumentDownload/UltraCapacitorPowerSupply/ConditionerPi at master * iancanada/DocumentDownload * GitHub). No answered yet.
Can USBBRIDGE SIGNATURE be powered via GPIO?
the question has been repeatedly asked about the compatibility of USBBRIDGE SIGNATURE and CONDITIONERPI from Ian @iancanada (DocumentDownload/UltraCapacitorPowerSupply/ConditionerPi at master * iancanada/DocumentDownload * GitHub). No answered yet.
Can USBBRIDGE SIGNATURE be powered via GPIO?
Hopefully you'll also mitigate/check for pops, and clicks when sending higher sampling rates like 7xx, and DSD256 with the rpi4 version, i did manage to reduce it somewhat with custom settings but it does seem to be a underlying hardware issue with the rpi3.