Like all quarter-wave enclosures, strong drivers ( High Bl^2/Re and low Le/Re ) are needed in order to get good extension while keeping size manageable. However this design is flexible and by tweaking the various sections and playing with driver offset you can get much drivers to work decently ( even the Lab12 lol ). You cannot go wrong with beyma.
Mrscy,
Perion Cedric nailed it, exactly ...
My favorite 15" driver (PA) for loading into a Paraflex sub of a reasonable size (or a Super Planar 8th if you don't mind the larger size) would be the 15SW115 from B&C ..... If you wanted to go outside of the PA realm there are a few more options that perform well (strictly as subs) and aren't as expensive..
..............................................................
For Super Planar tops it is a whole different story ..... We have already found our favorite 12s (B&C 12MH32 and Kappalite 3012HO for up to 1900hz in a 2-way toed-in 2x12 or splayed array setup) but now I have been working on a list of 15" drivers that would work well in wideband Super Planar tops tuned in the 70hz to 85hz range useful up into the 1500hz range (splaying or toe-in schemes are necessary here to allow for abundant horizontal coverage) ...
RCF MB15N351 (strong upper-mid response, very light mass, can be used as tops) EMFS=60
RCF MB15N401 (strong upper-mid, very good motor, light mass, can be used as tops) EMFS=90
RCF MB15N405(strong upper-mid, good motor, light mass, can be used as tops) EMFS=72.4
Beyma 15P80Nd (decent motor, decent upper-mids, expensive, can be used as tops ) EMFS=65
18sound 15MB700 (weak motor, very light mass & very strong mid response as tops!) EMFS=43.2
Eminence Kappalite 3015 (weakish motor, very light moving mass, low inductance, hot upper midrange, can be used as tops) EMFS=51.78
B&C 15FW76 (very good motor, good price, passable as tops, light moving mass) EMFS= 93.09
I think i may go ahead and add the ole Electrovoice DL15x to this list as well because it seems to meet the requirements for this sort of Super Planar top ....
NOTE: In case anyone was wondering about the initialization "EMFS" as it is used in this case it stands for Effective Motor Force Score (the BL^2/Re formula using a BL value that is adjusted down based upon the Le:Re ratio ... The Method is described in the "Large Coil Simulation Accuracy Issue And Adjustment" paper by JustAGuy) ...
If someone wanted to use 15" driver in a Super Planar kickbin (limiting their useful range to no more than 75hz to 300hz) then the requirements change again and our list of ideal drivers changes to include some different models focusing mainly on factors like the power handling,EMFS , and Xmax ratings (no need to have the bright sound or hot rising upper-mid curve in this kickbin scenario , instead the driver just needs to be very durable and capable) .. ..
Perion Cedric nailed it, exactly ...
My favorite 15" driver (PA) for loading into a Paraflex sub of a reasonable size (or a Super Planar 8th if you don't mind the larger size) would be the 15SW115 from B&C ..... If you wanted to go outside of the PA realm there are a few more options that perform well (strictly as subs) and aren't as expensive..
..............................................................
For Super Planar tops it is a whole different story ..... We have already found our favorite 12s (B&C 12MH32 and Kappalite 3012HO for up to 1900hz in a 2-way toed-in 2x12 or splayed array setup) but now I have been working on a list of 15" drivers that would work well in wideband Super Planar tops tuned in the 70hz to 85hz range useful up into the 1500hz range (splaying or toe-in schemes are necessary here to allow for abundant horizontal coverage) ...
RCF MB15N351 (strong upper-mid response, very light mass, can be used as tops) EMFS=60
RCF MB15N401 (strong upper-mid, very good motor, light mass, can be used as tops) EMFS=90
RCF MB15N405(strong upper-mid, good motor, light mass, can be used as tops) EMFS=72.4
Beyma 15P80Nd (decent motor, decent upper-mids, expensive, can be used as tops ) EMFS=65
18sound 15MB700 (weak motor, very light mass & very strong mid response as tops!) EMFS=43.2
Eminence Kappalite 3015 (weakish motor, very light moving mass, low inductance, hot upper midrange, can be used as tops) EMFS=51.78
B&C 15FW76 (very good motor, good price, passable as tops, light moving mass) EMFS= 93.09
I think i may go ahead and add the ole Electrovoice DL15x to this list as well because it seems to meet the requirements for this sort of Super Planar top ....
NOTE: In case anyone was wondering about the initialization "EMFS" as it is used in this case it stands for Effective Motor Force Score (the BL^2/Re formula using a BL value that is adjusted down based upon the Le:Re ratio ... The Method is described in the "Large Coil Simulation Accuracy Issue And Adjustment" paper by JustAGuy) ...
If someone wanted to use 15" driver in a Super Planar kickbin (limiting their useful range to no more than 75hz to 300hz) then the requirements change again and our list of ideal drivers changes to include some different models focusing mainly on factors like the power handling,EMFS , and Xmax ratings (no need to have the bright sound or hot rising upper-mid curve in this kickbin scenario , instead the driver just needs to be very durable and capable) .. ..
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As always good information there MMJ!
Some other drivers candidates:
For midkick:
B & C 15NDL76
B & C 15RBX100
BMS 15N630
BMS 15n820
Faital Pro 15FH510
Faital Pro 15FX560
Faital Pro 15HP1020
Faital Pro 15HP1060
Fane sovereign 15-500
Fane sovereign pro 15-600
Fane 154F01
Oberton MB500
Oberton MB600
P-audio e-15LF
Precision Devices PD.156
Precision Devices PD.155N01
Extended midrange:
B & C 15PLB76
B & C 15NDL88
Faital Pro 15PR400
Faital Pro 15FH530
Fane Sovereign 15-300TC
Fane 153F01
Fane Sovereign pro 15-600N
Fane Colossus 15-750BMN
Oberton 15MB35
P audio EM15-LB600
P audio SN15-500B
Precision Devices PD.153ER
Precision Devices PD.15BR40
Precision Devices PD.153C01
Precision Devices PD.1550
Some other drivers candidates:
For midkick:
B & C 15NDL76
B & C 15RBX100
BMS 15N630
BMS 15n820
Faital Pro 15FH510
Faital Pro 15FX560
Faital Pro 15HP1020
Faital Pro 15HP1060
Fane sovereign 15-500
Fane sovereign pro 15-600
Fane 154F01
Oberton MB500
Oberton MB600
P-audio e-15LF
Precision Devices PD.156
Precision Devices PD.155N01
Extended midrange:
B & C 15PLB76
B & C 15NDL88
Faital Pro 15PR400
Faital Pro 15FH530
Fane Sovereign 15-300TC
Fane 153F01
Fane Sovereign pro 15-600N
Fane Colossus 15-750BMN
Oberton 15MB35
P audio EM15-LB600
P audio SN15-500B
Precision Devices PD.153ER
Precision Devices PD.15BR40
Precision Devices PD.153C01
Precision Devices PD.1550
Obi,
Thank you Sir!
I appreciate that you have done all of this research to find more options!
In the Extended Midrange category i really like the Fane Colossus 15-750BMN, and the Oberton 15MB35 ... While we are at it we could add the 15MB500 to that "Extended Midrange" category as well
The P-Audio SN-15 500B and the PD.153ER also look good for use as a Super Planar top .... I am always on the lookout for very bright 12" and 15" drivers (with the sort of rising response that reaches over 100db @1w/1m within the 900hz and 2000hz range) ... I will be adding some of these mentioned above to my ideal-ish list 
I am working on a large combined list with some details on each driver ....
NOTE: Some of these models from P-Audio, BMS (and one other, Fane i think it was) needed to have their Xmax ratings recalculated from the given coil length and magnetic gap depth in order to conform to the standards that 18sound, B&C, JBL and other are currently using ..... I will include these updated figures in the combined list ..
in the kickbin category and approximate same cabinet bulk, I'd like to see some comparisons of what might be done Super Planer-wise VS CUBO Kick15. (and Kick12) Can CUBO Kick be simmed pretty well with hornresp? HD15 is one standard for kickbin. Traditional FLH might fare well in sims. There seems to be subjective differences of how the resonators play vs horn/BP-horn.
That GAS Comp driver must be tougher than an old boot!
Johannes,
Glad to hear that the driver survived as long as it did under such extreme conditions, it says a lot about the durability of that driver! ...... I am also glad that you are finding the Paraflex design to be useful ..
I have some Paraflex build updates from other folks to post here ... People are reporting good things about them..
Johannes,
Glad to hear that the driver survived as long as it did under such extreme conditions, it says a lot about the durability of that driver! ...... I am also glad that you are finding the Paraflex design to be useful
.. I have some Paraflex build updates from other folks to post here ... People are reporting good things about them..
It sure isn't a Kicker!
It's the user. My 08S15L74 has been in use since 2009. I've had it in a Ford Ranger SuperCab in a BPH. It's been playing in my mancave since 2012 in a T-TQWT.
Attachments
Angel G's Super Planar 1x15" top build
Freddi ,
I have a real world report from a friend named Angel Garbitos Romero in the Dominican Republic ... He builds cabinets professionally down there, and his company is called Garabomusic ..
He just built a prototype Super Planar top using one of his 15MB700 drivers from 18sound ..... He also owns HD15 kickbins and he is telling me that the Super Planar is leaving the HD15 behind in the dust in terms of performance in his listening tests, he is very impressed, however the Super Planar is considerably larger from what i understand so that is the "give and take" of it .. ..
He really likes the sound that this cabinet produces so he plans to build more of them out of higher quality material now ..
Angel's build/report post with videos in the comments section can be found here at this link on facebook.
freddi;5544986" said:
Freddi ,
I have a real world report from a friend named Angel Garbitos Romero in the Dominican Republic ... He builds cabinets professionally down there, and his company is called Garabomusic ..
He just built a prototype Super Planar top using one of his 15MB700 drivers from 18sound ..... He also owns HD15 kickbins and he is telling me that the Super Planar is leaving the HD15 behind in the dust in terms of performance in his listening tests, he is very impressed, however the Super Planar is considerably larger from what i understand so that is the "give and take" of it .. ..
He really likes the sound that this cabinet produces so he plans to build more of them out of higher quality material now ..
Angel's build/report post with videos in the comments section can be found here at this link on facebook.
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guess I'll have to join FB - that's a nice build. There's an expensive (maybe US$30/sheet?) OSB flooring product by AvanTech which is supposed to be water resistant and reasonably rigid - bet its heavy
AdvanTech Flooring, AdvanTech Subflooring, AdvanTech Floor | Huber Engineered Woods
AdvanTech Flooring, AdvanTech Subflooring, AdvanTech Floor | Huber Engineered Woods
Once you drop tapped horns and normal but undersized horns and start using high order quarterwave alignments you can get much more usable spl and sound quality from a design. This is increasingly true with modern high power density drivers, when you start seeing nonlinear behavior inside the ducts. Expanding flares will exaggerate the high order distortion component of the non-sinusoidal wave shapes. Non expanding quarter wave ducts will keep the wave form intact up to a much higher spl, and will keep the ratio of the distribution of overtones intact much better at high spl.
I have still not heard anything that can compete with my ROAR-series when it comes to usable frequency range and high spl from a easy to build size and layout. The Paraflex sounds really good, but I have still not built a sound quality optimized PA-orientated Paraflex with a good driver. My guess is that they sound quite similar in many aspects.
The future of high power high spl and stellar SQ lies in high order quarter wave alignments, IPAL-type drivers, switching amps that absorb and reuse the back-EMF and heavy use of DSP. To get over the "planing threshold" or the "sound barrier" encountered when pushing spl/dm3 density one must optimize for nonlinear behavior. It is analogous to the sound barrier for airplanes or the planing threshold for boats.
Non expanding quarter wave pipes works just fine at extreme sound pressure levels and air particle velocities. Just watch a slow motion video of artillery. Quarter wave resonances is quite apparent despite the supersonic flow of searing hot gases.
If it's speculation, then perhaps it's best if is presented as such, and not presented as if it's fact.
And "spectacular real-world results" can be backed up by measurements, e.g. SPL and THD measurements, particularly in comparison to the "lesser" designs that you're talking about.
If you want to sell the idea that one of these planar designs is better than a TH alignment For the same driver? For the same net volume? For the same passband?), then let's see the measurements that back it up.
So please, let's leave the pseudo-P.T Barnumry to the politicians
.If you need every claim backed up by JBL R&D departement, multiple peer reviewed AES papers and the works, then "diyaudio" might not be the best place for you.
I don't sell anything. I just encourage people to test new combinations of old known conceps.
I can hear that a B&C 15SW115 sounds better at high powerlevels then a cheap car audio driver, without having measurements and graphs validating my experience. I am allowed to write about my experience or do need a full Klippel analysist comparison before you allow me to write about this experience?
I don't sell anything. I just encourage people to test new combinations of old known conceps.
I can hear that a B&C 15SW115 sounds better at high powerlevels then a cheap car audio driver, without having measurements and graphs validating my experience. I am allowed to write about my experience or do need a full Klippel analysist comparison before you allow me to write about this experience?
I would like to see some real-world measurements, too. Nothing fancy, just comparison between ROAR and some other comparable PA sub, measured outdoor at high level - preferably at 5-10 meters distance (and scaled to sensitivity @2.83V/1m), with REW or ARTA. No AES papers, no KLIPPEL, just simple down-to-earth DIY measurements. Please?
Then say that, that it's YOUR experience, without any measurements, rather than unsupported stuff like "Once you drop tapped horns and normal but undersized horns and start using high order quarterwave alignments you can get much more usable spl and sound quality from a design." The latter falls into the "P.T.Barnumry" that I'm referring to.