These Plate Amps use Pascal Amp Moduls, which are used in many PRO-Audio Plate-Amps and 19" Amplifiers all over the world. We have used many over the past few years and many users around here are using these pascal modules in their systems.
They are absolutely fine - of course, there is better stuff around (a big MC2, Hoellstern, PKNC Amp is doing a better job), but these Pascal Modules are doing a good job and do have enough power for what you want to do.
Thermal issues sometimes occur when cooling is not enough - I don´t know how miniDSP solved this issue in their plate-amp. I have several miniDSP PLate Amps here, but not this exact model...
On thing which concerned me more with most plate-amps: They are not air-tight an mechanichaly often not up to the task of working in a TH this powerful with this speaker... I put many in ported cabs, Tops, etc... but with TH this big - I stick with extrernal Amping most of the times (one reason ist economical: Using an external Amp gives me more flexibility..)
When regarding Power: Remember that power with these modules (and many others on the market) often ist measured with a high crest-factor. So you don´t have 2,5kW@4Ohm RMS.... Most of the times, this is no problem, since music is not a sine wave.. But when doing dubstep or other music with long, low basssounds, these modules can keep up the power only for a short time. Power is reduced after a second or so... This is one of the advantages of some external amps with bigger power supplies - they really can keep u.. But of course we are talking about a very high power level here - the pascal modules sure don´t do a less better job than most of the external amps on the market...
Hi
New to the forum, i ve been lurking around a lot collecting info, but now that it's time to build i'm asking some help before committing totally.
We do dancehall reggae, sounds from the sixties to fresh digital productions, and want to build a soundsystem that plays that music well but could be used also for live or hip hop/edm.
We have a monthly gig in a 15x15x10 meters club, a couple hundred people, and that's our reference scenario. Obviously pulling it out in the open sometimes would be nice.
We are thinking about starting out with 2subs 2kicks 1 crossover and renting heads and amps, and building heads this spring.
We know scoops get the reggae bass right, but we love to play a lot of digital reggae that has clean defined crisp and quick bass and lot of kick, and that's what we are looking for. Should still play roots reggae nicely though
.
We've also moved scoops so could appreciate something smaller and easier to carry around.
We are heading towards xoc1 th18, seems the best compromise in size/efficency/extension.
It should have a sound that could be near what we are looking for, and works good in small groups, going under 40hz even alone.
Seems like the best solution for our current needs, as long as you keep the stack small.
The thing is, we plan to increase the sound later, and then the gain in LF you get with other designs could be something i envy considered th18 seems limited at 35hz @-3db, no matter how many you add.
The keystone subs are in consoderation too.they should bea little bigger and louder and easier to build. What about extension? How they sound agains ht18? PASC said the musician liked ht18, the sound man the keystone...
How do they dehave in stacks, same as ht 18?
About speakers for the ht 18 i see the most liked are 18s lw 9601 - 480 €
18 sw 115 430 €
18 lw 2400 or 2500 320 €.
The prices are as i could buy them now.
I would go for the 115 from forum reading, what do you say?
Which one would be the more flexible if i want to try differt enclosurws later ?
Finally, what do you suggest as matched kicks and high? Somethingto go along the quality and price of 2 th18 with sw115.
That's it for now, i'm no ingeneer so sorry for lacking technical knowledge, and thanks to evwryone who contributes here, wish all the dorum had this level of information and good behaving.
Joh
New to the forum, i ve been lurking around a lot collecting info, but now that it's time to build i'm asking some help before committing totally.
We do dancehall reggae, sounds from the sixties to fresh digital productions, and want to build a soundsystem that plays that music well but could be used also for live or hip hop/edm.
We have a monthly gig in a 15x15x10 meters club, a couple hundred people, and that's our reference scenario. Obviously pulling it out in the open sometimes would be nice.
We are thinking about starting out with 2subs 2kicks 1 crossover and renting heads and amps, and building heads this spring.
We know scoops get the reggae bass right, but we love to play a lot of digital reggae that has clean defined crisp and quick bass and lot of kick, and that's what we are looking for. Should still play roots reggae nicely though
. We've also moved scoops so could appreciate something smaller and easier to carry around.
We are heading towards xoc1 th18, seems the best compromise in size/efficency/extension.
It should have a sound that could be near what we are looking for, and works good in small groups, going under 40hz even alone.
Seems like the best solution for our current needs, as long as you keep the stack small.
The thing is, we plan to increase the sound later, and then the gain in LF you get with other designs could be something i envy considered th18 seems limited at 35hz @-3db, no matter how many you add.
The keystone subs are in consoderation too.they should bea little bigger and louder and easier to build. What about extension? How they sound agains ht18? PASC said the musician liked ht18, the sound man the keystone...
How do they dehave in stacks, same as ht 18?
About speakers for the ht 18 i see the most liked are 18s lw 9601 - 480 €
18 sw 115 430 €
18 lw 2400 or 2500 320 €.
The prices are as i could buy them now.
I would go for the 115 from forum reading, what do you say?
Which one would be the more flexible if i want to try differt enclosurws later ?
Finally, what do you suggest as matched kicks and high? Somethingto go along the quality and price of 2 th18 with sw115.
That's it for now, i'm no ingeneer so sorry for lacking technical knowledge, and thanks to evwryone who contributes here, wish all the dorum had this level of information and good behaving.
Joh
Dayton PA-460
Hi Everyone,
I've read through most of this thread but haven't found anyone using this dayton driver. I think it could be a great value for a lower SPL build, perhaps tube amps.
If someone could simulate this driver that would be really helpful.
Dayton Audio PA460-8 18" Pro Woofer
Thiele-Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (Fs)28.3 Hz
DC Resistance (Re)5.6 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)3.9 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)11.2
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.34
Total Q (Qts)0.33
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)14.19 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.19 mm/N
BL Product (BL)22.3 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)171g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)6 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)1241.1 cm²
I started a thread on designing a Bass Reflex but thought I'd also ask over here about this really great Tapped Horn.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284554-dayton-pa-460-18-bass-reflex-design.html
Hi Everyone,
I've read through most of this thread but haven't found anyone using this dayton driver. I think it could be a great value for a lower SPL build, perhaps tube amps.
If someone could simulate this driver that would be really helpful.
Dayton Audio PA460-8 18" Pro Woofer
Thiele-Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (Fs)28.3 Hz
DC Resistance (Re)5.6 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)3.9 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)11.2
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.34
Total Q (Qts)0.33
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)14.19 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.19 mm/N
BL Product (BL)22.3 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)171g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)6 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)1241.1 cm²
I started a thread on designing a Bass Reflex but thought I'd also ask over here about this really great Tapped Horn.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284554-dayton-pa-460-18-bass-reflex-design.html
What exactly do you mean by not strong enough. The PA380 is very similar sharing the same 80oz magnet and 22+ BL, and don't forget that these are the new version with different specs.
I don't have time to run a sim as I have to hit the road soon, but "not strong enough" means the motor isn't powerful. Low Qes and high BL^2/Re are indicators of a powerful motor assembly. The reality is for subwoofer drivers, it costs money to build a good motor and it really does end up being you get what you pay for most of the time.
It really depend on your definition of work. Noise will be made. Hell somebody earlier stuck a Peavey Lowrider in one of these and the results were okay-ish. Those have pretty weak motors compared to the B&C monsters recommended. Really built for reflex loading and not horns. The Lab 15-4s I'm using also have a bit of a weak motor and the results still work for me. But you're still not going to get the true performance the cabinet is capable of outputting. The 460 is even worse than those though, so the results are probably going to be pretty ugly. You'd be better off with a good reflex design. What you'll probably end up getting is a saddle response. A peak at the low end and a peak at the high end with a dip in between. That's generally the result for a driver with not enough motor to be flat through the passband.
The PA465s, on the other hand, does have a decent motor. You'd probably see good results with that. But again, that's twice the price, because motors cost money. You can tell just by looking that them.
It really depend on your definition of work. Noise will be made. Hell somebody earlier stuck a Peavey Lowrider in one of these and the results were okay-ish. Those have pretty weak motors compared to the B&C monsters recommended. Really built for reflex loading and not horns. The Lab 15-4s I'm using also have a bit of a weak motor and the results still work for me. But you're still not going to get the true performance the cabinet is capable of outputting. The 460 is even worse than those though, so the results are probably going to be pretty ugly. You'd be better off with a good reflex design. What you'll probably end up getting is a saddle response. A peak at the low end and a peak at the high end with a dip in between. That's generally the result for a driver with not enough motor to be flat through the passband.
The PA465s, on the other hand, does have a decent motor. You'd probably see good results with that. But again, that's twice the price, because motors cost money. You can tell just by looking that them.
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Hi Guys!
my name is bertl and i am from austria. i found this thread by investigating about TH. one of my friends is also a DIYer and he told me about Danley Products he heard in Frankfurt at Prolight&Sound last year. by the way i hope you forgive me my bad english. about 2 years ago he motivated me to design loudspeakers, and now, since about one year, i got a little set of nice speakers. a build a Horn top but only with some bassredlex subs and now I,m on the point where im going to try a horn sub.
i have some premises: first of all i want to have perfect low-mids and pattern control, this is why i decided to make a (oversized) Horntop.
the second point is that i will do it active. i'm using the pascal amps and AllDSP controllermodules. third: i have a very good access to faital pro and BMS products. the last point ist that i try to keep it small, lightweigt and scaleable. thats why i'm prefering single 15" and single 18"-subs. i will try to post some pics about what is already done (theres is a problem with the upload: "missing security token" ??- i have to check this out).
i also found some pics in the web of a original danley cabinet where espacially the throut chamber could be seen. maybe its interessting for you. please tell me what you think about.
finally i made some sims with hornresp using the aFaital 18XL1600 which is quite new
in comes in the liga of B&C 18SW115.
i want to achieve a design of sub system which fits pretty good to my horntops. my solution as before is ok but of course i could be better. until now i did a few gigs with a rock'n roll band, some cabaret events and so on. an old FOH veteran told me my horntops are fine stuff playing in the liga of GAE Director tops. my motivation ist to get the best quality which is possible in DIY - and i know it's just the beginning ......
my name is bertl and i am from austria. i found this thread by investigating about TH. one of my friends is also a DIYer and he told me about Danley Products he heard in Frankfurt at Prolight&Sound last year. by the way i hope you forgive me my bad english. about 2 years ago he motivated me to design loudspeakers, and now, since about one year, i got a little set of nice speakers. a build a Horn top but only with some bassredlex subs and now I,m on the point where im going to try a horn sub.
i have some premises: first of all i want to have perfect low-mids and pattern control, this is why i decided to make a (oversized) Horntop.
the second point is that i will do it active. i'm using the pascal amps and AllDSP controllermodules. third: i have a very good access to faital pro and BMS products. the last point ist that i try to keep it small, lightweigt and scaleable. thats why i'm prefering single 15" and single 18"-subs. i will try to post some pics about what is already done (theres is a problem with the upload: "missing security token" ??- i have to check this out).
i also found some pics in the web of a original danley cabinet where espacially the throut chamber could be seen. maybe its interessting for you. please tell me what you think about.
finally i made some sims with hornresp using the aFaital 18XL1600 which is quite new
in comes in the liga of B&C 18SW115.
i want to achieve a design of sub system which fits pretty good to my horntops. my solution as before is ok but of course i could be better. until now i did a few gigs with a rock'n roll band, some cabaret events and so on. an old FOH veteran told me my horntops are fine stuff playing in the liga of GAE Director tops. my motivation ist to get the best quality which is possible in DIY - and i know it's just the beginning
......
Hi
in the meantime i read some lines about your discussions concerning copying and patents. i also have seen, that the topic "cone correction" was discussed extensive. so forget the question above. i posted it because it was one of the first things i found about Tapped Horns.
regarding patents: have a look at this remarkable (austrian) manufacturer.
Lambda Labs | professional acoustics
They're calling their subwoofer-products "digital-horns" . look closley an you will see also tapped horns (but more sophisticated)
they also use the 18Sound 18NLW9600c
i have learned a lot only by reading your contributions. things come together...
thanks a lot to all of you
Bertl
in the meantime i read some lines about your discussions concerning copying and patents. i also have seen, that the topic "cone correction" was discussed extensive. so forget the question above. i posted it because it was one of the first things i found about Tapped Horns.
regarding patents: have a look at this remarkable (austrian) manufacturer.
Lambda Labs | professional acoustics
They're calling their subwoofer-products "digital-horns" . look closley an you will see also tapped horns (but more sophisticated)
they also use the 18Sound 18NLW9600c
i have learned a lot only by reading your contributions. things come together...
thanks a lot to all of you
Bertl
Hi
I hope not to get on somebodys nerves but i found some drivers laying around. As i said i have a good access to Faital. This 18XL1600, this 15XL1400 and 6 pcs of the 15FX560, wich are parked in my BR subs can be used to try a TH. I also got several 18HP1020 but i think this type of speaker is probably not the best for TH. I' m willing to start simulating and sawing. If one of you could give me tip how the drivers are best to use i would be happy.
I'm thinking of a TH or shoult i say 6 pcs of them to replace my BR- woofers. They should go a bit deeper and bring at least 3 dB more spl. But they shuold be max. 50x60x80cm. Thats the frontsize of my BR cabibets and also the footprint of a half euro-palette.
Furthermore with 3 pcs per side i can implement also a cardio stack. Its not importand for me to go down less than 40 Hz because i'm doing smaller live gigs supporting rock'roll band most of the time (let's say about 500 pax)
If i need very low subs i can do this in other ways.
I hope not to get on somebodys nerves but i found some drivers laying around. As i said i have a good access to Faital. This 18XL1600, this 15XL1400 and 6 pcs of the 15FX560, wich are parked in my BR subs can be used to try a TH. I also got several 18HP1020 but i think this type of speaker is probably not the best for TH. I' m willing to start simulating and sawing. If one of you could give me tip how the drivers are best to use i would be happy.
I'm thinking of a TH or shoult i say 6 pcs of them to replace my BR- woofers. They should go a bit deeper and bring at least 3 dB more spl. But they shuold be max. 50x60x80cm. Thats the frontsize of my BR cabibets and also the footprint of a half euro-palette.
Furthermore with 3 pcs per side i can implement also a cardio stack. Its not importand for me to go down less than 40 Hz because i'm doing smaller live gigs supporting rock'roll band most of the time (let's say about 500 pax)
If i need very low subs i can do this in other ways.
Attachments
Looks like you're asking for a new design. It might be best to start a new thread for that.
Fitting an 18" driver into a 20" wide TH that occupies about 8.5 cu.ft. gross might be a bit of a challenge, but I think it's doable.