The point isn't to impress anybody with the numbers, though I would argue that it's not an entirely unlikely scenario if you're driving 4 subs with one amp and playing EDM. My point was HOW the iNuke draws power.
Ideally it would have sinusoidal current draw but the plot shows it does anything but. Having your current draw spike like that is a hard load to drive and it means that you're likely to get voltage sag on those spikes. Anything else on the same circuit is going to see fluctuating voltage that may harm performance.
If you compare it to the KXD7200, which was being compared in that test, you can see how it has much more sinusoidal (cleaner) power draw than the iNuke.
Comparing the two with a 1khz input signal the difference in power supply quality is even more obvious.
The KAM is now drawing power nearly sinusoidally, while the iNuke is still chopping away.
Now I'm not saying it's a fatal flaw for the iNuke. Clearly it works well enough and people use them quite a bit. I'm just saying it's evidence of where you can see corners were cut in the design. That kind of load profile may be a contributing factor to the wisdom you hear that "Class D and generators don't mix" even if that's not necessarily true.
Ideally it would have sinusoidal current draw but the plot shows it does anything but. Having your current draw spike like that is a hard load to drive and it means that you're likely to get voltage sag on those spikes. Anything else on the same circuit is going to see fluctuating voltage that may harm performance.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
If you compare it to the KXD7200, which was being compared in that test, you can see how it has much more sinusoidal (cleaner) power draw than the iNuke.
Comparing the two with a 1khz input signal the difference in power supply quality is even more obvious.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The KAM is now drawing power nearly sinusoidally, while the iNuke is still chopping away.
Now I'm not saying it's a fatal flaw for the iNuke. Clearly it works well enough and people use them quite a bit. I'm just saying it's evidence of where you can see corners were cut in the design. That kind of load profile may be a contributing factor to the wisdom you hear that "Class D and generators don't mix" even if that's not necessarily true.
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Guess the test you're referring to is this one:
Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 10
Different topic
Behringer inuke NU6000 vs KAM KXD7200 bench tested - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 10
Different topic
I actually wondered the exact same thing myself and spent some time searching to see if there was such a product. I couldn't turn anything up but perhaps somebody more knowledgeable about electronics than me could.
Originally Posted by chris661
Wonder if there's an outboard PFC box we could put between generator and amps.
A big inductor might help, but I'm not an expert on that.
If you simply use a generator capable of the peak load that the amplifiers used are capable of drawing you don't have to worry about amplifier type.
To fully utilize the potential of just a single amp like the Behringer NU-4000 you need a generator capable of delivering around 4000VA at 120 volts AC.
Alternatively, you can use a small generator to charge batteries and then use a 12v/120v inverter between the batteries and amp. The batteries are capable of delivering the peak demands that would "choke" the small generator alone.
Wonder if there's an outboard PFC box we could put between generator and amps.
A big inductor might help, but I'm not an expert on that.
You can't get something for nothing.
If you simply use a generator capable of the peak load that the amplifiers used are capable of drawing you don't have to worry about amplifier type.
To fully utilize the potential of just a single amp like the Behringer NU-4000 you need a generator capable of delivering around 4000VA at 120 volts AC.
Alternatively, you can use a small generator to charge batteries and then use a 12v/120v inverter between the batteries and amp. The batteries are capable of delivering the peak demands that would "choke" the small generator alone.
This is what a power conditioner does, room for huge spikes & noise, check this for 120V version:
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - PL-8 C
+You can get APC & others
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - PL-8 C
+You can get APC & others
$$Mann,
From an electrical standpoint that product is simply a multiple outlet strip with lights, the only "conditioning" it does is cut off power if voltage is too high or too low. The 15 amp circuit breaker will also trip 5 amps lower than the 20 amp breaker typical on small generators.
Art
I must admit I don't know much about this, but I was recommended power conditioner for this use and this is what people use them for.
Have a look at the specs:
Maximum Surge Current:6,500 Amps
That's more than 15A
This one does 12000 amps spikes:
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - M-8x2
These are just random links, I'm sure you can get it 20A
Have a look at the specs:
Maximum Surge Current:6,500 Amps
That's more than 15A
This one does 12000 amps spikes:
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - M-8x2
These are just random links, I'm sure you can get it 20A
For A/V professionals, a regulator must be rack mountable for easy transportation, it must be stable even when subjected to distorted AC signals from poor generators, and it must be able to handle the high current demand of large power amplifiers while protecting all connected equipment with non-sacrificial transient surge suppression. The Furman Prestige True RMS Voltage Regulators will provide you these benefits!
Lightning surge protection is not voltage regulation.
If you want voltage regulation, you have to pay the price for voltage regulation, a product like Furman's P-6900.
Personally, I'd put the money towards a bigger generator rather than a voltage regulator.
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The waveform of the inuke is pretty similar to most heavy iron toroid trafo amps. All rectifier power supplies behave this way unless you go to the trouble of power factor correction. Class D (or more specifically, SMPS) and generators "don't mix" because of what happens when you suddenly apply 200 volts to them. Unless it's a PFC/Universal voltage supply, it's way more likely to just go BANG than an old school toriod. The old heavy iron supply will just absorb the overload, and limit how much of it gets transmitted through to the amp. You'll be running your IGBTs way past their ratings in a SMPS, and the knee of the failure curve is a whole lot sharper. The switching amplfier circuit itself tends to be less robust to momentary overvoltage than an old-school class B (or H) design as well. If you do blow a set of outputs in an RMX5050, you just replace them and keep going next time. If you torch a SMPS or class D circuit there is usually nothing left of the circuit board, so you throw the whole amp away. Of course if you spent $4k on an amp with a PFC supply, the DC rails run normal over an input range of 85 to 270 volts, and a "120V" jobsite generator is going to fall somewhere in there, even if it is misbehaving or being abused.
Well after considering everything here, I think I am going to go with the new Crown XLS2502.
It will also give me a bandpass crossover so that I can bypass the dcx2496 altogether. Its cheaper and lighter than the RMX and should give me a little more power than the NU6000. Plus as far as reliability, I will have 2 amps instead of 1 so the show could go on.
It will also give me a bandpass crossover so that I can bypass the dcx2496 altogether. Its cheaper and lighter than the RMX and should give me a little more power than the NU6000. Plus as far as reliability, I will have 2 amps instead of 1 so the show could go on.
The NU6000 has more than double the output of Crown XLS2502, is lighter, and cost $210 less.
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Unless I am missing something I see:
Behr = 2200w rms
Crown = 2400w rms
Just to be clear, I am comparing 2 Crowns to 1 Behr so the cost difference is $770. The benefit being redundant amps, as I type this I realize I could buy a second NU6000 for less and literally just keep a brand new amp on stand by and still come out cheaper.
I am not going to lie, the brand identity is really messing with me. I realize it's irrational. I suppose the cheapest solution would even be to buy 2 NU3000 and bridge them on each sub.
Art - when you are done with the experience in your head..would you download it and email it to me? Have a great day
You are comparing the wrong figures, the Crown's 1kHz output should be compared to the NU6000 maximum output of 3000W.
Even if you don't want to believe that, the difference between 2200 and 2400 watts would be inaudible (a fraction of a dB), assuming the XLS2502 current limiting sounds as transparent as the NU6000.
One side of the NU6000 can deliver more power than the bridged XLS2502. With two NU6000 you would have more than four times the power and save around $420 over a pair of XLS2502.
I would recommend a pair of the NU4-6000 (pairs of channels bridged mono), even if you loose one, you can still power four 4 ohm subs.
You are entitled to go for whatever brand you want, but facts are facts.
That said, don't you have a back up amp already?
The Mackie FR2500's that were used on them did not belong to me and I have returned them.
I think it may be six of one half a dozen of the other, but using almost the same logic as an NU4-6000, I think I am going to go with 2 NU3000DSP units. (Isn't the NU4 basically 2 of these in 1 chassis?)
That way a have 2 completely separate amps and if one goes down during a performance the other subwoofer will still be playing. If I use 1 NU4 with 1 backup, and lose the amp, I lose everything until I can swap the other amp in. All in all I think now I might be splitting hairs.
Both the NU4-6000 and the NU-6000 are two of the NU3000 in one chassis.
Because the NU-6000 is already two amp channels internally bridged mono per side, it can't be bridged mono in to any load.
One amp per sub that can power both subs in a pinch makes sense.