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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
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Old 4th March 2021, 06:20 PM   #31
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
Class D , of course. B& W is expensive.

Nice "icepower" layout in the B/W plates (below).

OS
Sorry - missed this. This is what's inside my sub.
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Old 4th March 2021, 08:52 PM   #32
ostripper is offline ostripper  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
I opened up my B&W ASW610. Its beautifully made inside. There's and input/signal conditioning/DSP board (all SMD) and output of that feeds into a single B&O ICE board that integrates a 45W Class D amp and SMPSU. Lots of foam around the interconnect cables etc to prevent rattling etc. The tag on the back says 'Designed in the UK, Manufactured in China

I paid £500 for it new - I don't feel ripped off having looked inside.

(below) is what you paid for. That woofer is one of the best OEM's I've seen.


To buy this , I would have to spend nearly 200$ for a dayton ultimax 10".

After I have bought all my parts , I will have 2 subs for 100$.
But not a ASW610 with that nice woofer , surprised they only have a
45w amp powering that.

Ohh , that is "woofer porn" -

OS
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ASW610 woofer.jpg (39.4 KB, 115 views)
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Last edited by ostripper; 4th March 2021 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 4th March 2021, 09:06 PM   #33
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
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Old 4th March 2021, 10:22 PM   #34
nauta is offline nauta  Canada
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Hey


The racial slur in the first post should be culled.


A worse "scam" than the "subwoofers" cited are those from Velodyne. Velodyne made its mark with using an accelerometer mounted on the driver cone to reduce distortion. Well, the truth of what it does and why it was done this way is quite different, being a means to cut the required cabinet size in half.



An example of the Velofyne marketing hype - which one might rightly call lies - is with their 12" 100W model. The STK module inside is only rated for 70W at 0.3% THD. The overall THD for the unit was about the same. However, measuring the THD of the acoustic output - very difficult and not done by me - is about 6%, which is no better than the raw driver in a proper box.


Anther issue with so-called "subwoofers" is that they are not actually subwoofers; rather, they are woofers in a separate box. A full-range cabinet goes down to 20Hz and subs are supposed to be sub-audio, going from 20Hz down. The lowest note on a pipe organ is 16Hz which will make your ears flutter but you can feel it through your body. The harmonics of the note are more important anyway.


I believe the boxes used for all "subwoofers" manufactured in the recent decade are under-sized and tend to produce a very artifical disconnected bass noise. The amplifiers in them merely have to be robust and it is the only place in audio where class-D is acceptable. Pure class-B works well here as ilde heat can be zero and the response is rolled off by 80Hz anyway - if it extends much further THD should be better than for a simple sub. And also, with response above 80Hz you really should have two subs with separate electrical signals since bass is directional.
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Old 4th March 2021, 10:33 PM   #35
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
My you have some strong views.
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Old 4th March 2021, 11:38 PM   #36
ostripper is offline ostripper  United States
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"Grifters" can also be American (more so - they are the marketers).

So grifters pal up with grifters across the globe - Globalism.
The slur is ultimately on the end consumer (and the planet) ,
who the grifters actually count on to be uninformed and gullible.
And so the cycle goes on ,
in a mad race to the bottom of the barrel .

OS
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Old 5th March 2021, 04:42 PM   #37
nauta is offline nauta  Canada
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Hi OS
There is no excuse for this line: "how nice of POLK to outsource
to cost cutting chinese "grifters"."
Its presence is inciting and gives a very hurtful impression about YOU.
Do you even know how Western - Chinese tech negotiating goes? The Western company has to provide a very precise and accurate specification to acquire wht they want to receive, as the Eastern tendency is to try to make the item as affordable as possible to the buyer. If a cost-cutting measure impairs performance, life expectancy, etc, it is up to the buyer to redirect the supplier to change things. You can get whatever quality you desire from the east and they have amply demonstrated that they can improve upon Western designs that are iconic and thought to be supreme.
I am not Asian but I believe in our current times one has to be extra scrupulous about making any statement that could be deemed racially inequitable. As the originator of this thread, you can go back to the first post and remove the slur - simply remove the word "chinese" which you did not even dignify with a capital letter.
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Old 5th March 2021, 05:15 PM   #38
duncan2 is offline duncan2  United Kingdom
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I never thought that on DIY Audio a post relating to the export regulations and conditions of Chinese policy would appear here as that's exactly what is a major issue on my previous public help website ( a well known one ) .


I had access to the Chinese governments policy on exports and it places the liability for any faults etc fully in the exporters hands .


China will not allow re-imports of faulty goods direct from Chinese factories .


As well as this Nauta is quite right a name was attached to conditions of service called "built to a price ".


This allows greedy non Chinese importers of Chinese goods to have the cheapest versions done up to look like the dearest versions .


I proved this personally by buying three versions of the "same " soldering station -£25/ £40/£60 which were advertised for sale in the UK .


On talking apart the cheapest one I was shocked at the lack of electrical safety internally as well as the iron itself outwardly looking good but internally dreadful.


I will not name the UK importer but the dearest version --they all had the same outer case - was the one I have as a spare to my dearer model and its the only one I would feel safe to use .


This caused quite a stir with the UK public who visited the website as well as the "Regulars " --posters who are constantly answering questions on the website all being older guys like myself every one a university graduate and one professor.


I do not like to see the UK public treated like this and I hope the same applies to those here in the USA /Australia etc.
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Old 5th March 2021, 05:38 PM   #39
OldDIY is offline OldDIY
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DiY from Russia offered to test fake transistors obtained from China at a low price. In case of non-conformity, open (break), document the tests and file a claim with the seller.
Post on YouTube.
We want to be deceived and we allow ourselves to be deceived.

Last edited by OldDIY; 5th March 2021 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 5th March 2021, 07:26 PM   #40
Bfpca is offline Bfpca  Canada
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The tale of two subs - solid state Consumer puffery (rant and solution).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
Because subs work over a very restricted frequency range, they normally donít need to have large power amplifiers.

This does not excuse shoddy design/workmanship.

To understand this intuitively, consider a 2 tone IMD test. You cannot put both stimulus signals in at full input sensitivity because you will overload the amp - it goes into clipping.

My 100 W B&W sub draws 50W max from the plug point.
Your comment on sub power needs, for music at least, is right on the mark. I am powering 2 15Ē 8ohm sealed subs in my music only system using a Crown CDI1000. The power indicator lights will not reach the -20level on a lot of music- Thatís 3 watts at 8 ohms. As loud as Iíve ever played bass, with something like Herbie Hancock, This Is The Drum or My Morning Jacket -Highly Suspicious, the -10db indicators will flicker- thatís 30watts. So a 300w amp is plenty for my needs and then some. I see a lot of DIY sub builders chasing 1kw +/driver and I wonder just how much of that they are actually using on normal program material. Better to spend your $ on the best drivers and cabinet construction than on kilowatt+ amps IME.
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