@Jerryrigged: Nice work. That's a good simple way to mount the driver assembly (with the basket still attached). My first walsh was made from a beer can, and it sounded marvelous.
When I listen to music through DIY Walsh's I hear things that I never noticed through conventional drivers. The wide dispersion is awesome too.
When I listen to music through DIY Walsh's I hear things that I never noticed through conventional drivers. The wide dispersion is awesome too.
"I guess this all calls for Some sort of exposition..."
OK, time to explain 'what is was' to 'what became it' to the viewers (and the lurkers *G*)...pour a fav libation and sit back...
A pair of innocent 4" 3 way former auto speakers were mercilessly shorn of their cones down to their baskets and v.c.'s late into the night. The cone tweeters and quasi-ribbon super-tweets pairs escaped to the backsides of the magnets, where they affixed themselves with machine screws that managed to run the Gauntlet of the Fields, assisted by the Stout Paper Narrow Funnel and his faithless savant, the Pliers of Long Nose. The baskets, now erected above the cunningly disguised PVC DWV flange of the same 'Inner Diameter', had been levitated Just Enough with the AlumTubeAllThread Group and their groupies, The Nuts.
But that was after the Saga of THE CONES.
Having ingested the DECWARE Conus (...and probably Something Else...), lithographic aluminum wrapped about a form of plaster cast into the guise of a Truncated Cone of (relatively) the preferred proportion. The overlap, fused by a strip of 3M VHB film tape, has withstood the test of time and the handling of the Hands of Many Hams. The newly erect cones *expletives deleted* bonded to the naked v.c.s' and its' spider buddies. The surrounds became a question that still begs a finish to this strange little saga....
There...who says technical can't be entertaining? Amused me, anyway...*G*
The surrounds are the 'wild card' that I'm wanting to get back into. The 'successful' unit on the right in the pic has 1/16" sheet foam, the same stuff things come wrapped in. Not the sheet that tears easily in one direction; it's uniformly consistent in both x & y. The left units' surround is made of dental dam sheet, and we will return it back to the 'surgical suite'. Waayyy too much excursion, they'll start 'boomping' at you at anything approaching a 'normal' spl. The foam has enough rigidity to support the cones' weight, yet allow enough it to play at a normal listening level, say at your desk. It can be cranked a tad, but I don't expect it to play like my other 'toys' and it starts to vibrate about a bit on a surface. You can only expect so much from a 4" of unknown spec or pedigree.
Oh, yeah...the adhesive used top & bottom on the cones is 3M #4475 'Scotch-Weld' Industrial Plastic Adhesive. Comes in a large squeeze tube, glues Nearly Anything to same, dries 'resin clear', ages to what looks like amber. Wonderful stuff, used it for years, don't put it into paper bags and inhale. It will *expletive deleted* you up and vaporize those remain brain cells you've managed to drag this far.
Well, that's the gist of it. Q & A time, y'all, if you're made it to this.
OK, time to explain 'what is was' to 'what became it' to the viewers (and the lurkers *G*)...pour a fav libation and sit back...
A pair of innocent 4" 3 way former auto speakers were mercilessly shorn of their cones down to their baskets and v.c.'s late into the night. The cone tweeters and quasi-ribbon super-tweets pairs escaped to the backsides of the magnets, where they affixed themselves with machine screws that managed to run the Gauntlet of the Fields, assisted by the Stout Paper Narrow Funnel and his faithless savant, the Pliers of Long Nose. The baskets, now erected above the cunningly disguised PVC DWV flange of the same 'Inner Diameter', had been levitated Just Enough with the AlumTubeAllThread Group and their groupies, The Nuts.
But that was after the Saga of THE CONES.
Having ingested the DECWARE Conus (...and probably Something Else...), lithographic aluminum wrapped about a form of plaster cast into the guise of a Truncated Cone of (relatively) the preferred proportion. The overlap, fused by a strip of 3M VHB film tape, has withstood the test of time and the handling of the Hands of Many Hams. The newly erect cones *expletives deleted* bonded to the naked v.c.s' and its' spider buddies. The surrounds became a question that still begs a finish to this strange little saga....
There...who says technical can't be entertaining? Amused me, anyway...*G*
The surrounds are the 'wild card' that I'm wanting to get back into. The 'successful' unit on the right in the pic has 1/16" sheet foam, the same stuff things come wrapped in. Not the sheet that tears easily in one direction; it's uniformly consistent in both x & y. The left units' surround is made of dental dam sheet, and we will return it back to the 'surgical suite'. Waayyy too much excursion, they'll start 'boomping' at you at anything approaching a 'normal' spl. The foam has enough rigidity to support the cones' weight, yet allow enough it to play at a normal listening level, say at your desk. It can be cranked a tad, but I don't expect it to play like my other 'toys' and it starts to vibrate about a bit on a surface. You can only expect so much from a 4" of unknown spec or pedigree.
Oh, yeah...the adhesive used top & bottom on the cones is 3M #4475 'Scotch-Weld' Industrial Plastic Adhesive. Comes in a large squeeze tube, glues Nearly Anything to same, dries 'resin clear', ages to what looks like amber. Wonderful stuff, used it for years, don't put it into paper bags and inhale. It will *expletive deleted* you up and vaporize those remain brain cells you've managed to drag this far.
Well, that's the gist of it. Q & A time, y'all, if you're made it to this.
Just another RSVP kinda thang
Thanks, C. I agree that the dispersion is certainly that of a true 'radial' pattern, at least for the frequencies that the main driver is capable of. The T/ST @ the tops were a 'folly' on my part. Gave them a 'pre-MBL' look that then & now make folks look @ them quizzically, which amuses.
Next chapter is to damn the dental dam surround on #2, replace it w/some sheet EVA foam found @ the local Michaels' craft store. It's got similar 'feel' w/regard to it's flex, somewhat thinner, and is available both with or w/out adhesive on one face. Various colors; I opted for black, for that 'real speaker look'. *G* The cones will remain 'bluish', now and into the future. I've got more to use/abuse.
I'm looking to go both 'micro' and 'macro' with regard to sizing. How small can I go? Can I segment a cone to generate a larger diameter, 'spoofing' the segmented construction of an MBL driver? (BTB, there's pics posted of the MBL techs constructing the various bitz that go into their drivers. Impressive, and I'm not interested in trying to duplicate one. I still have to eat, sleep, work, and that 'normal' stuff. It's a hobby, not a addiction.)
Was the inside of the can still wet? *L*
Thanks, C. I agree that the dispersion is certainly that of a true 'radial' pattern, at least for the frequencies that the main driver is capable of. The T/ST @ the tops were a 'folly' on my part. Gave them a 'pre-MBL' look that then & now make folks look @ them quizzically, which amuses.
Next chapter is to damn the dental dam surround on #2, replace it w/some sheet EVA foam found @ the local Michaels' craft store. It's got similar 'feel' w/regard to it's flex, somewhat thinner, and is available both with or w/out adhesive on one face. Various colors; I opted for black, for that 'real speaker look'. *G* The cones will remain 'bluish', now and into the future. I've got more to use/abuse.
I'm looking to go both 'micro' and 'macro' with regard to sizing. How small can I go? Can I segment a cone to generate a larger diameter, 'spoofing' the segmented construction of an MBL driver? (BTB, there's pics posted of the MBL techs constructing the various bitz that go into their drivers. Impressive, and I'm not interested in trying to duplicate one. I still have to eat, sleep, work, and that 'normal' stuff. It's a hobby, not a addiction.)
Was the inside of the can still wet? *L*
I dream of wires, but now long for titanium foil (see an earlier post this thread)...
*Sigh* Will wait for the boat to trash the dock I don't have....the curse of Mumms' taste vs. tap water wallet.
But I've still got the Blues...I will have rise time yet again. A pair of 12" baskets without cones to remove call to me to pseudo-Walsh them. A 15" EV sits waiting to become the 'sub-tub', Yes, another project on the list that ends in orbit...
It's hard to be a romantic in a tech era. People mumble and sidle away, like we used to do in the pre-cell phone time when folks would address the air about them, semaphore gestures, dancing to the daylight. But I digress....a lot....*S*
*Sigh* Will wait for the boat to trash the dock I don't have....the curse of Mumms' taste vs. tap water wallet.
But I've still got the Blues...I will have rise time yet again. A pair of 12" baskets without cones to remove call to me to pseudo-Walsh them. A 15" EV sits waiting to become the 'sub-tub', Yes, another project on the list that ends in orbit...
It's hard to be a romantic in a tech era. People mumble and sidle away, like we used to do in the pre-cell phone time when folks would address the air about them, semaphore gestures, dancing to the daylight. But I digress....a lot....*S*
Was the inside of the can still wet? *L*
No, back in those days I drank every last drop
Aluminum beverage cans are a high modulus form which is desired but thicker than ideal. Finally, I bought rolls of full hardness aluminum foil at 0.001 and 0.002" which made nice sounding cones. The 0.001" is very delicate to work with but sounded more "transparent".
"Waste not, want not." Besides, it's easier to handle dry even if you're not.
Finally bothered to pull a blue sheet and mic it. .005, which lends me to surmise from your comment that highs wouldn't be a strong suite for this material. Since due to years of loud machinery and bouts of loud music and the wonderful effects of advanced age, I'm unlikely to hear that upper strata anyway. Now that I actually Have a calibrated mic and some means of seeing what these little 'audities' can do, it's high time to perhaps get a gist of what they're up to, so to speak. Might actually learn something, however vague. I've read amidst posts here and other sources that field measuring omnis' is considered by some to be either misleading or subject to room effects or hosts of other issues.
Should be a fun way to blow an afternoon, in any case. *L*
Have any pics of what you've been up to? Love to see what you've wrought; I'm always up for seeing what can be done either in the well-stocked shop or on the kitchen table (There's a great tradition of gouging the dining room table and the ruckus that erupts from that. I've been happy to be able to dodge that bullet. *G*).
Besides, it's easier to handle dry even if you're not.Finally bothered to pull a blue sheet and mic it. .005, which lends me to surmise from your comment that highs wouldn't be a strong suite for this material. Since due to years of loud machinery and bouts of loud music and the wonderful effects of advanced age, I'm unlikely to hear that upper strata anyway. Now that I actually Have a calibrated mic and some means of seeing what these little 'audities' can do, it's high time to perhaps get a gist of what they're up to, so to speak. Might actually learn something, however vague. I've read amidst posts here and other sources that field measuring omnis' is considered by some to be either misleading or subject to room effects or hosts of other issues.
Should be a fun way to blow an afternoon, in any case. *L*
Have any pics of what you've been up to? Love to see what you've wrought; I'm always up for seeing what can be done either in the well-stocked shop or on the kitchen table (There's a great tradition of gouging the dining room table and the ruckus that erupts from that. I've been happy to be able to dodge that bullet. *G*).
Yah, that's the case I'm sure, although I've never measured one. Walsh cones are simular to conventional drivers in most respects, e.g., lighter cones have better high freq. output.
My foil supply is Grainger here in the U.S.
I do have photos and will post when I get them transfered to new computer.
Ah, a new 'puter. Always fun because it's new & faster; never fun because we generally aren't...hope it all proceeds smooooothly. *G*
Graingers...well, I'd be damned if I expected that as the source. McMaster-Carr or some specialty shop, yes. I guess I'll just have to let my keyboard drag my eyes over dere.
Thanks....*pfft*
Graingers...well, I'd be damned if I expected that as the source. McMaster-Carr or some specialty shop, yes. I guess I'll just have to let my keyboard drag my eyes over dere.
Thanks....*pfft*
Ah, well...this thread has 'gone to sleep', as have many before it...
I'm busy with 'real life concerns' for the near future, and can be 'pm'd' if anyone would like to comment/share/question.
I will be putting together a 'how-to slide show' on my next set of DIY Walsh as time allows, so if anyone would like to attempt to follow my 'Xperiment' I'll post the availability of such here when that occurs.
Until then, Play Loud, y'all...*S*
I'm busy with 'real life concerns' for the near future, and can be 'pm'd' if anyone would like to comment/share/question.
I will be putting together a 'how-to slide show' on my next set of DIY Walsh as time allows, so if anyone would like to attempt to follow my 'Xperiment' I'll post the availability of such here when that occurs.
Until then, Play Loud, y'all...*S*
I'm baaack....*L*
Since my last post, I've replaced the surrounds on both of the pictured units. The 'iffy' unit mentioned turned out to have a questionable vc that gave up the ghost. Fortunately, a replacement was at hand, and was drafted into duty.
I now have 2 units that work Beautifully. The characteristics that Walsh radiators are renowned for are quite apparent, even on my workbench (the drums are Here on the left, sax There, vocalists left of center...enthralling....*S*).
Next step is to create 2 more units of the same basic design and size. I've always wondered what a 4 channel 'surround' Walsh array would yield. Since my 'little mutants' don't have the size to create bass on a practical level, I'm maneuvering a Habitat for Humanity score of a Cambridge Soundworks 4 channel amp w/sub ($10! Damn! *L* Can spend more on beer!) as the motivation for the entire group. Not huge power, but Enough to test the concept, and I can eq the input as desired and as may amuse....
We'll see what happens...*S*
Since my last post, I've replaced the surrounds on both of the pictured units. The 'iffy' unit mentioned turned out to have a questionable vc that gave up the ghost. Fortunately, a replacement was at hand, and was drafted into duty.
I now have 2 units that work Beautifully. The characteristics that Walsh radiators are renowned for are quite apparent, even on my workbench (the drums are Here on the left, sax There, vocalists left of center...enthralling....*S*).
Next step is to create 2 more units of the same basic design and size. I've always wondered what a 4 channel 'surround' Walsh array would yield. Since my 'little mutants' don't have the size to create bass on a practical level, I'm maneuvering a Habitat for Humanity score of a Cambridge Soundworks 4 channel amp w/sub ($10! Damn! *L* Can spend more on beer!) as the motivation for the entire group. Not huge power, but Enough to test the concept, and I can eq the input as desired and as may amuse....
We'll see what happens...*S*
You know, the Ohm Walsh 1 drivers aren't very big, and they are plenty bassy. I have a pair that appears to have the "more bass" modification offered by Ohm at some point, which seems to have included a simpler crossover network and a really long port tube.
I really do need to set things up so i've got the OW3 as fronts and OW1 as rears.
Magna, I can agree with the concept but a tad out of reach with my budget & available time. But it does give me something to strive for.
ericj, you can stop making me jealous at any time. *L* Nice pair of pairs, there. Please do take the time to hook 'em up F & R and let me know what you hear. Any & all observations would be appreciated....
Currently my mutants have no extensions to their bases to allow any bass development. I'm considering adding some PVC 'columns' to the base structure (it's just a modified toilet flange...it just happened to be Just the Right size for the project, and I'm cheap *L*). I've been thinking about using 'slide whistle technology' to be able to vary the interior volume. I've noticed that some of the German Physics units that Magna mentioned are fairly compact, so I'm curious to see what effect(s) occur. Currently I'm preoccupied primarily with making a living, so patience becomes a necessity rather than an option.
I'll let y'all know what happens when it does, though. Let us all know what your 3's and 1's do when you change the configuration. *G*
ericj, you can stop making me jealous at any time. *L* Nice pair of pairs, there. Please do take the time to hook 'em up F & R and let me know what you hear. Any & all observations would be appreciated....
Currently my mutants have no extensions to their bases to allow any bass development. I'm considering adding some PVC 'columns' to the base structure (it's just a modified toilet flange...it just happened to be Just the Right size for the project, and I'm cheap *L*). I've been thinking about using 'slide whistle technology' to be able to vary the interior volume. I've noticed that some of the German Physics units that Magna mentioned are fairly compact, so I'm curious to see what effect(s) occur. Currently I'm preoccupied primarily with making a living, so patience becomes a necessity rather than an option.
I'll let y'all know what happens when it does, though. Let us all know what your 3's and 1's do when you change the configuration. *G*
If it's any consolation, there's a cracked solder joint or something in the left Walsh 3. And on that model, the crossover is way at the bottom of the cabinet.
Some day i need to nut up, get out my mallet, and bash the crossover plates out of the cabinets.
Then trace out the middle path between the aspect switches and rebuild them with films on new boards. with proper binding posts.
Some day i need to nut up, get out my mallet, and bash the crossover plates out of the cabinets.
Then trace out the middle path between the aspect switches and rebuild them with films on new boards. with proper binding posts.
*L* No consolation needed, eric, since it sounds like one of those projects that requires trepidation, esp. the 'bashing' part. Personally I approach things of that nature with a 'surgical 'tude'..."How can I crack this nut, get at the meat, and reassemble it without leaving visible scar tissue?" Not that there's any warranty (expressed or implied) involved (I assume), it's just one of my quirks. *G* 'Course, since you intend to play with new boards and posts, I suspect you're of that mindset anyway. Hard to tell what's in a sealed box, short of Xrays, which starts to become kinda Excessive...*L*
Good luck with that, when you go there...
Good luck with that, when you go there...
Yeah. The guy who currently operates Ohm - something or other Strohbean - pops up on audiokarma from time to time. I exchanged some mail with him a couple years ago when i determined that i have an issue with the left 3.
Mostly he tried to sell me four-digit price tag upgrade. But he did tell me that, yes, the crossover board is glued in, and they invariably break them during removal for upgrade.
He offers similar upgrades for Walsh F speakers that presumably result in salvageable and even working F drivers getting trashed, so i'm not a big fan of the current incarnation of that company.
So far my best idea is that maybe the glue is hot glue, so i can take the driver cage off of the cabinet, flip the cabinet up-side-down, and point a hair dryer down the bass port. Presumably this would melt the glue before damaging the cabinet. Who knows.
Mostly he tried to sell me four-digit price tag upgrade. But he did tell me that, yes, the crossover board is glued in, and they invariably break them during removal for upgrade.
He offers similar upgrades for Walsh F speakers that presumably result in salvageable and even working F drivers getting trashed, so i'm not a big fan of the current incarnation of that company.
So far my best idea is that maybe the glue is hot glue, so i can take the driver cage off of the cabinet, flip the cabinet up-side-down, and point a hair dryer down the bass port. Presumably this would melt the glue before damaging the cabinet. Who knows.
"...years ago..."? Damn, you're tolerant. *L* We might get along IRL. *LOL*
I'd be skeptical of trying a hair dryer, it might damage the board unnecessarily, since the heat can't be directed Precisely. Depending upon Where they 'stuck' the board, I'd consider using a hacksaw blade with coarse teeth; get the longest one you can @ Home Despot, Lowes', or wherever, tape one end with duct tape so you can handle it without digital damage to your fingers, and see if you can gnaw away at it. That will obviously depend upon how generous the guy gluing the board in place was that day...
Since you don't know at this point where the board got stuck down in there, it's subject to your 'expedition into the unknown'. I'd be happy to advise, to perhaps save you some of that PIA factor of 'new board, new this 'n that'. If I can 'look over your shoulder', maybe that 3 can be back into full condition with minimal hassle... Post pics; the MD's these days are doing that for us, and we have this annoying tendency to die on them if they FIU. *L* Right?
The Cambridge sub I mentioned was purchased without a power supply or the dongle that controls the volume/balance/on-off functions via a DIN plug. I've found a circuit diagram for a later unit that defines the parts for said dongle, and I'm going to bet that the engineers were 'just lazy enough' to not change it or vary the part tolerances. If I fry the bugger, oh well, it was cheap and I get the driver out of it in any case. "Damage Control", and I get to smell torched circuitry. *L*
"I love to smell napalm in the morning...." (to quote a classic film line...).
I'd be skeptical of trying a hair dryer, it might damage the board unnecessarily, since the heat can't be directed Precisely. Depending upon Where they 'stuck' the board, I'd consider using a hacksaw blade with coarse teeth; get the longest one you can @ Home Despot, Lowes', or wherever, tape one end with duct tape so you can handle it without digital damage to your fingers, and see if you can gnaw away at it. That will obviously depend upon how generous the guy gluing the board in place was that day...
Since you don't know at this point where the board got stuck down in there, it's subject to your 'expedition into the unknown'. I'd be happy to advise, to perhaps save you some of that PIA factor of 'new board, new this 'n that'. If I can 'look over your shoulder', maybe that 3 can be back into full condition with minimal hassle... Post pics; the MD's these days are doing that for us, and we have this annoying tendency to die on them if they FIU. *L* Right?
The Cambridge sub I mentioned was purchased without a power supply or the dongle that controls the volume/balance/on-off functions via a DIN plug. I've found a circuit diagram for a later unit that defines the parts for said dongle, and I'm going to bet that the engineers were 'just lazy enough' to not change it or vary the part tolerances. If I fry the bugger, oh well, it was cheap and I get the driver out of it in any case. "Damage Control", and I get to smell torched circuitry. *L*
"I love to smell napalm in the morning...." (to quote a classic film line...)
.
...and a Happy Friday the 26th....
A friend took a moment to stop and listen to my little mutants. Liked what he heard, esp. the 'sound field' Walshs' are known the create. Declared them 'steampunk' (which I loved; Very Apt...) and brought over a Sony sub that he had sitting around.
Wow.
Despite a cranky source (which can be eliminated), I noticed some details that are interesting. First, the sub as I had assumed, gave them 'the bottom' they couldn't create as they exist. Second, the surround material may need to be less compliant. High volume increases a 'harshness' in the response, which leads me to believe that the resistance in excursion needs to be increased, which likely led to the early death of the unit with a very compliant material.
The third is rather 'touchy/feely'; if you gently (or not...it's fun to play with *G*) squeeze the cone, the damping of your touch acts like eq. Run your fingers up/down on the cone allows one to 'selectively damp' frequency. It can 'tighten up' vocals or the way various instruments sounds. This follows the way the original Walsh cones or the HGH units have surface treatments and/or interior 'mystery gook' applied the cones. Very Interesting.....
The 'investigation' continues...
A friend took a moment to stop and listen to my little mutants. Liked what he heard, esp. the 'sound field' Walshs' are known the create. Declared them 'steampunk' (which I loved; Very Apt...) and brought over a Sony sub that he had sitting around.
Wow.
Despite a cranky source (which can be eliminated), I noticed some details that are interesting. First, the sub as I had assumed, gave them 'the bottom' they couldn't create as they exist. Second, the surround material may need to be less compliant. High volume increases a 'harshness' in the response, which leads me to believe that the resistance in excursion needs to be increased, which likely led to the early death of the unit with a very compliant material.
The third is rather 'touchy/feely'; if you gently (or not...it's fun to play with *G*) squeeze the cone, the damping of your touch acts like eq. Run your fingers up/down on the cone allows one to 'selectively damp' frequency. It can 'tighten up' vocals or the way various instruments sounds. This follows the way the original Walsh cones or the HGH units have surface treatments and/or interior 'mystery gook' applied the cones. Very Interesting.....
The 'investigation' continues...