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Babelfish M25 , AKA M2 on steroids , AKA M2-XA25 bstrd
Babelfish M25 , AKA M2 on steroids , AKA M2-XA25 bstrd
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Old 3rd August 2018, 09:38 PM   #111
Zen Mod is online now Zen Mod  Serbia
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Babelfish M25 , AKA M2 on steroids , AKA M2-XA25 bstrd
Default comparison : regular (N-N) buffer vs. Borbely's WC buffer

as explained in post #1 (and few other posts ) , I made provision for implementing two types of buffers in amp front end ;

transition from one to other is simple - pulling two 0R resistors from pin sockets , and putting 27R in one place and anything between 470K to 1M in other place, and finally adding one 220nF capacitor

in simulation and in real world , these two buffers are mostly the same in performance when load is benign , while Borbely's White Cathode Follower transposed in JFet domain is having serious advantages with lower loads ..... say 1K and less

anyway , proof is in da pudding , so I finally made some measurements , comparing these two.

find enclosed two part article-Bible for Greedy Boyz , from E. Borbely

always worth reading
Attached Files
File Type: pdf JFETS THE NEW FRONTIER, PART 1.pdf (541.3 KB, 62 views)
File Type: pdf JFETS THE NEW FRONTIER, PART 2.pdf (121.7 KB, 33 views)
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Last edited by Zen Mod; 3rd August 2018 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 09:49 PM   #112
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so , measurements ;

just 1 and 10W , in 4 and in 8R load , regular buffer and Borbely buffer

read captions on pictures to know what's what

conclusion ....... OS , transposed back to buffer through Edcor ..... isn't such/enough heavy load to invoke any particular benefit from Borbely's buffer , EXCEPT slight increase in 2nd harmonic , thus making sound little sweeter

didn't made measurements with any software capable to show harmonic's phase ; for that I need first to repair damn EMU1212 , having Lout channel damaged from some reason ...... proggie is demanding both measuring route through one channel out-in and ref loop-back through second channel

bummer , but who cares ...... fun is all mine ........ we don't need stinkin' 'puters to make amps

again - ignore everything left from 1K

edit : maybe the reason why there is no bigger difference is because existing regular buffer is already overkill ..... having 6JFets paralleled up and 6 JFets paralleled down , with 21mA Iq
Attached Images
File Type: png B M25 1W 4 R Borbely buffer.png (66.3 KB, 713 views)
File Type: png B M25 1W 4 R regular buffer.png (65.8 KB, 702 views)
File Type: png B M25 1W 8 R Borbely buffer.png (68.1 KB, 688 views)
File Type: png B M25 1W 8 R regular buffer.png (67.4 KB, 682 views)
File Type: png B M25 10W 4 R Borbely buffer.png (65.7 KB, 683 views)
File Type: png B M25 10W 4 R regular buffer.png (63.7 KB, 63 views)
File Type: png B M25 10W 8 R Borbely buffer.png (67.1 KB, 62 views)
File Type: png B M25 10W 8 R regular buffer.png (66.9 KB, 69 views)
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Last edited by Zen Mod; 3rd August 2018 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 4th August 2018, 10:07 AM   #113
kbergsson is online now kbergsson  Iceland
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Both look good ZM Are you going for Broberly and the sweeter sound?
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Old 4th August 2018, 10:44 AM   #114
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dunno

that small difference .... it really depends of surrounding gear , speakers primary

in any case - good to have a choice , and try what's better to your ears
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Old 5th August 2018, 06:37 PM   #115
Russellc is offline Russellc  United States
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Babelfish M25 , AKA M2 on steroids , AKA M2-XA25 bstrd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Mod View Post
so , measurements ;

just 1 and 10W , in 4 and in 8R load , regular buffer and Borbely buffer

read captions on pictures to know what's what

conclusion ....... OS , transposed back to buffer through Edcor ..... isn't such/enough heavy load to invoke any particular benefit from Borbely's buffer , EXCEPT slight increase in 2nd harmonic , thus making sound little sweeter

didn't made measurements with any software capable to show harmonic's phase ; for that I need first to repair damn EMU1212 , having Lout channel damaged from some reason ...... proggie is demanding both measuring route through one channel out-in and ref loop-back through second channel

bummer , but who cares ...... fun is all mine ........ we don't need stinkin' 'puters to make amps

again - ignore everything left from 1K

edit : maybe the reason why there is no bigger difference is because existing regular buffer is already overkill ..... having 6JFets paralleled up and 6 JFets paralleled down , with 21mA Iq
Alrighty, here I go again displaying level of ignorance on world wide web...I notice in these graphs, the big spike at 1K...then a little to right a small thin spike, followed by another small thin spike to the right of that.

Then , I read where you said the Borbely doo dads increased H2, and I noticed that the first thin line to the right of big spike was taller than standard M2 version.

Now, from that I wondered if first thin spike to the right was 2nd harmonic, and next one to right is 3rd?

I hope so.

Befuddled,

Russellc
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Old 5th August 2018, 07:19 PM   #116
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Papamod On :

You're not so befuddled.

Papamod Off

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Old 26th August 2018, 11:48 AM   #117
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will post tonight final pcb and adequate schm

pcb is shared/common with SissySIT , and altered to match DiyAudio UMS

ZM became sissy at heart , to please those sissy Greedy Boyz , scared of some drilling & tapping work

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Old 26th August 2018, 12:49 PM   #118
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Babelfish M25 , AKA M2 on steroids , AKA M2-XA25 bstrd
Default Final pcb and schematic

OK , suddenly found my self in cloud , while sitting on the porch and preparing for hiking ; too much thunders these days , so better stay and brew some more coffee

to repeat - pcbs are common for Babelfish M25 and SissySIT amps

so , I've done them (files) :
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Babelfish-M25-schm-for-DiyA.jpg (197.4 KB, 229 views)
File Type: jpg pcb sshot.jpg (285.1 KB, 242 views)
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Last edited by Zen Mod; 26th August 2018 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 29th August 2018, 05:26 PM   #119
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Looking good!
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Old 14th September 2018, 06:28 PM   #120
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just posted latest update about shipping , in trade thread
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