Spaciousness, right. So that means you're throwing it out into the room and getting it back as reflections... How did it feel, opened up the room but didn't hit you from a pinpoint direction - more of an overall 'amount of spaciousness' instead? Sufficiently mixed up?
This may be the reason to do it, but you have to watch that you don't make a mess of the first arrival sound.
Hmm, using the wrong channel so the tweeters aren't playing the same signal and can't cross paths. I have no information on this. I can only guess that it sounds like a solution in search of a problem, or maybe when an insurmountable problem exists. I'd be concerned that signals have in and out (of mono) components.
This may be the reason to do it, but you have to watch that you don't make a mess of the first arrival sound.
Hmm, using the wrong channel so the tweeters aren't playing the same signal and can't cross paths. I have no information on this. I can only guess that it sounds like a solution in search of a problem, or maybe when an insurmountable problem exists. I'd be concerned that signals have in and out (of mono) components.
I’m getting the feeling your not a fan? 
I wouldn’t think the going in/out of the mono source would have any different issues than if it were just set up normally (super tweeter over tweeter same signal) except that it will help in the stereo portions?
It’s easy enough to try anyway you look at it…….super tweeters are more in the subjective realm from what I can tell. Touch the hot stove has always been my educational process.
I wouldn’t think the going in/out of the mono source would have any different issues than if it were just set up normally (super tweeter over tweeter same signal) except that it will help in the stereo portions?
It’s easy enough to try anyway you look at it…….super tweeters are more in the subjective realm from what I can tell. Touch the hot stove has always been my educational process.
So it should be
In the '90s some time I had this thing going where I'd split/influence a mono signal by frequency to L&R to give an artificial stereo effect. I remember because I had a friend who wasn't a fan and used to tell me. It worked out though because I ended up turning it into active crossovers and then he didn't feel like saying so much
In the '90s some time I had this thing going where I'd split/influence a mono signal by frequency to L&R to give an artificial stereo effect. I remember because I had a friend who wasn't a fan and used to tell me. It worked out though because I ended up turning it into active crossovers and then he didn't feel like saying so much
Allen, How am I supposed to realize my pseudo spaciousness and focus/clarity with you turning me against before I even try it? LOL
Well now if I notice a difference to the better I know for SURE it’s real!
Puppet it’s going to be up there, I’ll start (around 14k-16k) but the range I’ve seen super tweeters used is anywhere between 8k-20k
Well now if I notice a difference to the better I know for SURE it’s real!
Puppet it’s going to be up there, I’ll start (around 14k-16k) but the range I’ve seen super tweeters used is anywhere between 8k-20k
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Well, as I say I haven't experienced it and I'm only guessing, but it hardly matters IMO. The spaciousness is there to be had whether you switch channels or not. (and as far as any possible lobing, at least it can be calculated, simulated or measured, and it can be managed, lots of things you can do.)
Holy crap. I got a pair of the S/H Realistic pods for 58 EUR pp included 10 years ago...They work nice as supertweeters, just ditched the old filter for new caps.
Allen, I did some more studies to refresh my memory since it’s been a couple years since I last looked at the SDA setups.
Ok, apparently (I say this because sometimes I interpret things wrong!) if you take R signal from the the opposite side to a secondary driver (reproducing the same bandwidth) on the L speaker (and vice versa…secondary driver needs to be at least as far apart as the ears on your head from the original ) also inverting polarity and adding 5ms +/- delay it cancels much of the unwanted interaural crosstalk?
I do notice on some recordings the stereo effect does runaway into unreal territory (excluding hard panning that’s supposed to happen when it does)
Delay should be easy enough as just daisy chaining another set of cables from the tweeter amp (biamp) to another amp for the secondary (super) tweeter ought to come close to 5ms?
And reverse polarity should be easy enough as the main tweeters are already inverted by design so the super tweeters would just run straight up.
Carver messed around with the same thing except at the preamp level.
There was also another famous company that did it with speakers the same but I can’t remember the name. (Hafler maybe?)
And like I said in the beginning, it’s just a little setup change and all easily reversed.
@C37…..inflation!
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Bob,
Sound travels through air at around 1130 feet per second, a little more than 1 foot per millisecond (ms).
Electrical signals travel through wire at near the speed of light, 186,282 miles (5280 feet per mile) per second.
You would have to increase your cable length a bit more than "another set" for 5ms delay ;^)
Art
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Ok, so if the delay introduced by another amplification step won’t do it, maybe back the tweeter on up a little……it’d 5 feet?…..more than I thought!
Edit……looks as though dsp might be necessary for that one! Unless I misread and it was .5 ms? I’ll go back and see if I can’t find it again!
DSP would (in this case) need to be ad/da conversion which in of itself could cause a 5ms latency…….problem solved! (If it really was 5ms…… I’m second guessing what I read/understood now!)
Edit……looks as though dsp might be necessary for that one! Unless I misread and it was .5 ms? I’ll go back and see if I can’t find it again!
DSP would (in this case) need to be ad/da conversion which in of itself could cause a 5ms latency…….problem solved! (If it really was 5ms…… I’m second guessing what I read/understood now!)
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If I recall the "techniques" you describe are variations on cross-wiring additional tweeters in or out of polarity, located some distance apart from the main speakers, with additional short delay added to increase "ambience".
I'm familiar with various ambience effects created with or without additional transducers.
The popularity of the Bose 901 (8 reflecting speakers, one direct) proved many people like adding additional ambience to the source.
Adding high frequency ambience from additional locations reduces coherence (clarity, articulation, intelligibility, comprehensibility) of the original source recording, which also reduces my listening enjoyment of the source.
Have fun listening to whatever you prefer!
Art
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It was just something I’ve been wanting to try, it’s not the main objective…..I was just looking for guidance to do that particular experiment correctly, I’ve heard the SDA’s in action and know it does work in some capacity.
Also I have personal experience with ambience speakers (stereo) and really enjoyed the results using that setup for years……now I have more experience, more disposable income (within reason) and a whole word full of diy at my fingertips!
Also I have personal experience with ambience speakers (stereo) and really enjoyed the results using that setup for years……now I have more experience, more disposable income (within reason) and a whole word full of diy at my fingertips!
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Hi Bob,
Did you follow Pano's thread: Fixing the Stereo Phantom Center
It covers a lot of ground of what that inverted tweeter idea is all about. A 5 ms delay seems very long though, for what it's supposed to do.
I've done a lot of experimenting with these types of cross-talk cancellation as it can really be fun if you get it to work close to right. I have more experiments planned in my near future, however I did not try to use separate drivers/tweeters (yet)*. Just all kinds of DSP trickery. A lot of it is covered in the thread linked above. The rest of it in my own way too long story.
* = aside from using my ambient speakers, similar to what Linkwitz was doing with his Watson experiment.
Did you follow Pano's thread: Fixing the Stereo Phantom Center
It covers a lot of ground of what that inverted tweeter idea is all about. A 5 ms delay seems very long though, for what it's supposed to do.
I've done a lot of experimenting with these types of cross-talk cancellation as it can really be fun if you get it to work close to right. I have more experiments planned in my near future, however I did not try to use separate drivers/tweeters (yet)*. Just all kinds of DSP trickery. A lot of it is covered in the thread linked above. The rest of it in my own way too long story.
* = aside from using my ambient speakers, similar to what Linkwitz was doing with his Watson experiment.