I really enjoy mine! It's all about implementation and getting the EQ and crossovers right for that particular combination of Horn/Waveguide compression driver combo. It really is instructive to listen to how different the same driver sounds on different horns with no EQ. Just shows you each combo is unique and requires a bit of customization to get it right.
Rob
Rob
Who knows? People complain that the 511/811 ring like a bell. The do - until you fasten them down to a heavy wooden frame. There are things you can do to improve them, but used right they fine without crazy mods. I prefer the 811 to the 511, but many people don't.
It's like multicell horns. How many times have I heard or read that they suffer from terrible comb filtering? I don't hear it. And every listener I had audition my systems I asked to move around and listen for beaming and comb filtering. No one ever hears it. So I don't get what the fuss is about.
I use 300B on CD also with active crossover, SS amp on woofers.
IMO, good tube directly powering a good CD without passive crossover parts in between is how this stuff sounds really good.
EliGuy,
The transition from "snap" to "firecracker" and "shimmer" to "crash" sounds almost exactly how I'd describe the level difference listening to a live drum kit moving from a few meters to about 6 meters, about twice as loud, or a 10dB difference, similar to the sensitivity difference between a typical compression driver/horn combination and the upper output of a 424 morel/waveguide.
Have you ever tried comparing a compression driver/horn combination on one side balanced in level to your 424 morel/waveguide?
Art
I think Weltersys pretty much laid it out for any contenders... Comparing one to the other, with similar/matching voicing and max peak spl level...I mentioned max peak spl because the ability of horns to not compress the signal may cause the transient peaks to stand closer to the original signal, if you are more comfortable listening to pure dynamic radiators could it be due to the higher level of compression of the signal inherit to this mode of sound production? So maybe the system is playing at a volume you recognize within your "norm" but because of the uncompressed playback nature of the horn system...the transient peaks (snare, hi hat, guitar picking, etc) are reaching closer to their full sonic potential as opposed to the original signal....a horn system may reach the same RMS level as another system while its PEAK reading will be slightly higher... is what I'm proposing....It seems the lessons from reading the signal apply no less to reading what I am hearing...but there is no need to speculate on this one, its all measureable.
I like this setup enough that I'll most likely sell my other gear and take this one into retirement! For me, it's that good.
The problem with most compression drivers are the type horns (profiles) they are combined with, the material the horns are made from----and getting a flawless, smooth, throat connection between the two !!! If you screw up the throat connection ALL BETS ARE OFF !!!! I was very fortunate to talk and visit with Dr. Bruce Edgar and get a good listen on his horn system ( with field coil drivers ) and had my ears opened. Get great compression drivers, great horns, get proper system integration, and all other driver technologys takes a distant back seat. It takes time, patience, money and some help from knowledgeable friends. When all that comes together, you will have the most dynamic, clean, live sounding, detailed sound, possible. It was a great, rewarding, experience building this system !!
Meet Joe, and his amazing DIY horn speakers - YouTube
Joe
Meet Joe, and his amazing DIY horn speakers - YouTube
Joe
Over the years I have found that a lot of negative opinions people may have about CD's and horns stems from impressions of older designs and horn combinations that sounded everything but smooth and extended.
Take a modern driver such as the non metalic diaphragm faital pro hf146 on a 18-sound xt1464 horn and you will realize just how far we have come from the 2445/2386 days when smoothness and extension is concerned.
Take a modern driver such as the non metalic diaphragm faital pro hf146 on a 18-sound xt1464 horn and you will realize just how far we have come from the 2445/2386 days when smoothness and extension is concerned.
Well, it helps, but still need to damp the top half of the bell, though if bolted to a good size/massive baffle it's usually fine for most folks.
As you know I prefer the 511, but it's not the horn per se other than it can be used lower as just a WG since I don't like a 15" used so high and why I'm no M19 fan and really do wonder why so many do since it wreaks havoc on the whole bottom end of the critical speech BW.
Again, having done some serious modding to a pair of 511s there's lots of audible improvements, though for most folks that prefer these horns, not worth the effort.
They do and its the mass quantity of them that 'smears'/'blends'/'homogenizes' them to the point where they sound as one to us. Chalk one up for Bell Labs' input.
GM
Yeah, the pioneers had to design for max efficiency, so lots of compromises whereas today we're awash in squeaky clean power, DSP, so WGs and drivers designed for their much lower driver loading is the goal.
No HIFI WG needs a vintage spec 10:1 CR driver.
GM
Hi, Duke58
Glad you like some of my shop gizmos !! I bought that Deckel pantograph from an old German machinist ( holocaust survivor) who made small prototype parts for the first F-16 fighter jets. He also made parts for the IBM selectric typewriter and priceless antique clocks. We talked for hours at a time. When he talked about his horror stories as a slave machinist for the Nazi war machine, I was speechless and nearly crumbled. It was then, I realized how fortunate and blessed we are in this great country. The old time machinist have such skill, I loved picking his brain !! I still have much to learn. It is nice having some machines to actually make the parts you need. I am very fortunate !!
Joe
Glad you like some of my shop gizmos !! I bought that Deckel pantograph from an old German machinist ( holocaust survivor) who made small prototype parts for the first F-16 fighter jets. He also made parts for the IBM selectric typewriter and priceless antique clocks. We talked for hours at a time. When he talked about his horror stories as a slave machinist for the Nazi war machine, I was speechless and nearly crumbled. It was then, I realized how fortunate and blessed we are in this great country. The old time machinist have such skill, I loved picking his brain !! I still have much to learn. It is nice having some machines to actually make the parts you need. I am very fortunate !!
Joe
Hi Joe-- after my enlistment in the military, I entered a four year machinist apprenticeship at a national lab in NM. That was 1984, before CNC and PCs were commonplace. There was a Holocaust survivor who always amazed me with what he could do with manually operated machine tools. Small parts require much tighter tolerances than large parts. There were lots of small levers, pawls and gears they made by hand.
I had lots of fun making the mechanical parts of these DIY amps. That's the easy part of amps for me. I'm a Mechanical Engineer and engineering schools don't teach blueprints/mechanical drawing anymore because it's all CAD/CAM based. You could always tell someone was a mechanical engineer by his/her writing. The engineering students carried T-squares and calculators attached to their belts, wore t-shirts that said "Yesterday, I didn't know how to spell engineer and today I are one."
For some reason, I really enjoy the stuff I make more than anything I can buy.
I had lots of fun making the mechanical parts of these DIY amps. That's the easy part of amps for me. I'm a Mechanical Engineer and engineering schools don't teach blueprints/mechanical drawing anymore because it's all CAD/CAM based. You could always tell someone was a mechanical engineer by his/her writing. The engineering students carried T-squares and calculators attached to their belts, wore t-shirts that said "Yesterday, I didn't know how to spell engineer and today I are one."
For some reason, I really enjoy the stuff I make more than anything I can buy.
I fell in love with CDs and horns since the first moment I heard them. I have never heard any very high end loudspeakers but on audio exhibitions, but I alway miss that little bit compression drivers with horns do very well. I tend to prefer polymer diaphragms to titanium. And I agree with the previous comments that a proper implementation is necessary. Had I heard a bad implementation for the first time, I would also be suspicious to horns - but I heard an amazing horn system for the first time and I became a horn addict.
Interesting. I have been through many horns and drivers, including Faital’s latest 1.4” drivers on 300 hz SEOS horns. Listening to 2445 on a 2380 and I’ve never heard anything better. Yes, the last octave is a rough ride, but the rest is superb. Speakers completely disappear and you are immersed in the recording space. I do use FIR correction. Once you EQ it right, get the crossover right, it can sound amazing. Cones and domes can also sound superb. All about implementation.