i read a lot of the troels gravenson descriptions and projects and i like the idea of a 5 way
with an 4inch midrange and a 8inch woofer down to 200hz in sealed enclosures.
i want to build this as an active version with hypex plate amps, which will be "cheaper" as the passive version and dump the money into the chassis.(and yes, easier too
so i start with the midrange and here is the first breaking point.
i like maximum details in my speakers, and dynamics are also preffered. (arent those 2 opposite sides ?
the scan speak 12MU- seems to be the perfekt chassis.but i only do have experience with kevlar sandwich and alu membran. dunno if i like the sound of a paper membran.
also, im not sure if the paper membran of the 12mu fits
the "max details, please" requirements.
so my question, which chassis can you recommend as midrange for best resolution and maybe one for the lower mid (which fits the sonic profile of the midrange and alignment of WTC=0,58 down to 200 or 100hz .
the midranges i found are:
12mu-4731t00 of course, any better out there that doesn't cost as much as a space shuttle ?
ScanSpeak 12MU/4731T00 | HiFiCompass
4in-SB12MNRX2-25-4
light membran with 4,2g high qms.
don't know how good the resolution will be.
Tang Band W4-1337SDF
titan membran, 3,9g but lower qms, didnt found a distortion profile.
on the paper it looks better then the W12CY001
but paper doesnt tell me how good the resolution will be.
and... only 25watt. (the FA123 tweeter section uses max. 100W)
one german magazine tested it with a qms of 1,79
10F/4424G00
seems to be perfect too, but can only handle 10watt....
so its a no go.
Eton Symphony 3-400/A8/25MG
smaller, better distorion profile then 12mu-4731t00 but.. discontinued.
ETON 3-400/A8/25Mg | HiFiCompass
W12CY001
usable till 2000 max 2500hz according to audioexcite
heavy Mg membran 7,5g
www.audioexcite.com >> SEAS E0021 W12CY001
some say the seas have better resolution then SS
with an 4inch midrange and a 8inch woofer down to 200hz in sealed enclosures.
i want to build this as an active version with hypex plate amps, which will be "cheaper" as the passive version and dump the money into the chassis.(and yes, easier too
so i start with the midrange and here is the first breaking point.
i like maximum details in my speakers, and dynamics are also preffered. (arent those 2 opposite sides ?
the scan speak 12MU- seems to be the perfekt chassis.but i only do have experience with kevlar sandwich and alu membran. dunno if i like the sound of a paper membran.
also, im not sure if the paper membran of the 12mu fits
the "max details, please" requirements.
so my question, which chassis can you recommend as midrange for best resolution and maybe one for the lower mid (which fits the sonic profile of the midrange and alignment of WTC=0,58 down to 200 or 100hz .
the midranges i found are:
12mu-4731t00 of course, any better out there that doesn't cost as much as a space shuttle ?
ScanSpeak 12MU/4731T00 | HiFiCompass
4in-SB12MNRX2-25-4
light membran with 4,2g high qms.
don't know how good the resolution will be.
Tang Band W4-1337SDF
titan membran, 3,9g but lower qms, didnt found a distortion profile.
on the paper it looks better then the W12CY001
but paper doesnt tell me how good the resolution will be.
and... only 25watt. (the FA123 tweeter section uses max. 100W)
one german magazine tested it with a qms of 1,79
10F/4424G00
seems to be perfect too, but can only handle 10watt....
so its a no go.
Eton Symphony 3-400/A8/25MG
smaller, better distorion profile then 12mu-4731t00 but.. discontinued.
ETON 3-400/A8/25Mg | HiFiCompass
W12CY001
usable till 2000 max 2500hz according to audioexcite
heavy Mg membran 7,5g
www.audioexcite.com >> SEAS E0021 W12CY001
some say the seas have better resolution then SS
I am currently listening 12MU/18WU combo, and after all projects I am very very happy with the sound, so 12MU would be my first choice.
Other options:
NE123W - very low distortion, sounds nice
WF120BD03 - measured by hificompass, this could be very nice midrange
W12 Nextel with cone edge treatment from Troels
Other options:
NE123W - very low distortion, sounds nice
WF120BD03 - measured by hificompass, this could be very nice midrange
W12 Nextel with cone edge treatment from Troels
My main speakers are based on dayton reference rs125. Its labelled as 5" woofer, but in reality its 4". Exceptionally clean midrange.
Dayton Audio RS125-4 5" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm
Dayton Audio RS125-4 5" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by resolution. Where do you plan on crossing it over? Here is the manufacturer's FRD, it looks pretty good from 500hz to 4Khz, if you use it in that range it will very accurate. Funny, now that I look at it this FRD the peak and dip I described in my last post is not my cabinet but the driver itself. It also looks like I could add a notch around 6Khz.
Attachments
It almost seems that when someone asks for this, they are looking for a driver which will have a smooth response without further eq. Of course it will also need to be blended into and part of a smooth system that works well with the room. Then a speaker might reveal what is on the recording.
With care and adjustment, an inexpensive driver might do this too.
(There are other possible definitions of resolution)
With care and adjustment, an inexpensive driver might do this too.
(There are other possible definitions of resolution)
I guess I can't answer the resolution question, it is a little subjective. The SBA mid in question is a quality driver, it sounds great to my ear, I find it difficult to quantify how much detail it resolves. The two measurements I posted speak to its weaknesses as well as its strengths, I would use it again. After all it is a $50.00 mid-range driver and I'm sure there are better ones out there, but they are sure to cost a lot more.
well, i ordered one SB12MNRX2-25-4 today for testing and most important factor i forgot: "the WAF".
my wife dont care if a speaker has the dimensions of a bath tube, but she don't like the sound signature of the eton hexacore drivers.
so i better check it out if she likes the paper sound before i buy something more expensive
my wife dont care if a speaker has the dimensions of a bath tube, but she don't like the sound signature of the eton hexacore drivers.
so i better check it out if she likes the paper sound before i buy something more expensive
a short update to the SB12MNRX2-25-4:
the chassis has arrived this week, measured first time before break in, a testbox with 2,5 liters is made and right now the chassis gets a massage with 80hz.
also a hypex FA123 has arrived for the testing. (and later use)
so, as soon as the spider is elastic enough that i can reach my desired QTC, i can head on with the tests.
the chassis has arrived this week, measured first time before break in, a testbox with 2,5 liters is made and right now the chassis gets a massage with 80hz.
also a hypex FA123 has arrived for the testing. (and later use)
so, as soon as the spider is elastic enough that i can reach my desired QTC, i can head on with the tests.
Another update.
i didn't get the TSP of the SB12MNRX2 down as expected.
the break-in of a woofer with an xmax of 9 to 14mm is much more easier.
but with a xmax of 2mm im afraid to break it.
maybe im to much a carebear to the driver
the simulations of the factory data said 1,6L for qtc=0,58.
I used a 2,5L enclosure filled with rockwool and only got the chassis down to a qtc of 0,7.
so, the battle between L16RMX3 with an qtc=0,635 and the SB12MNRX2 wasn't really that fair.
also, the L16RNX3 has a SD of 104cm², the SB12MNRX2 SD=50cm². also the positioning of the tweeter wasn't optimal.
to avoid that i got to much fooled by the displacement and the bass playing abilities i decided to do the listening test at 2 positions 1,5 meter and approx. 3meters distance.
also i limited the frequency range from 500 -2000hz./LR4
so for the battle of which driver plays more details.....
i used the song "piecemaker die" from the extreme album "3 sides of every story"
well, the SB12MNRX2 did loose.
too much details lacking, eg: the "brushing technique" of the guitar, not audible.
the top harmonics of the pitch harmonics missing.
the sound was flat, 2 dimensional.
the instruments weren't separeted, it's one piece of mud.
i will give the driver another chance and make a bigger enclosure, to get a better qtc and a closer tweeter positioning but i don't have high hopes that this driver will play more details.(resolution).
