@Richard
I'm not sure that 1/3 smoothing gives enough resolution to be able to spot the differences between drivers measured. I use that to check the energy across the whole spectrum when finished designing but for purpose of maching spl and fr response shape it is useless.
I don't doubt your preference but i'm interested in its origin.
I'm not sure that 1/3 smoothing gives enough resolution to be able to spot the differences between drivers measured. I use that to check the energy across the whole spectrum when finished designing but for purpose of maching spl and fr response shape it is useless.
I don't doubt your preference but i'm interested in its origin.
well, i hope i understand it right.
what is the origin of my preference ?
hmm, the ability to play as much as details its my understanding of a speaker from exeptional quality (i don't wanna use the the term high end cause nowadays every discounter thrash call itself high end)
if i just want speakers that sound somehow good, i would go to mediamarkt an buy them there.
but i want to build speakers that have such a good sound quality, which i m not able to afford in a shop.and not every driver is good enoug for that.
im playing around with test enclosures and drivers for 10 years now, and learned
that you can measure yourself to death, try to flatten frequency but ist doesn't change that some drivers sound exeptional and others are not.
paper is patiently and most of the time the TSP are like alice im wonderland.
your ears tell you if the driver hits your personal spot or not, not a colored line behind a microphone
don't get me wrong, measuring is important to build a box. but its the step after my ears for me.
I believe Zvu means: what is causing the subjective difference? ..it's "origin".
-again,
Listening is very important, but it should be done BEFORE placing in a box. (..and of course again afterward, usually with multiple enclosure design iterations.)
This should provide a much better idea of the sound of the driver (within limits as previously mentioned and at lower spl).
Once you put something into a box (and particularly if it's "stuffed"), the sound often changes (..though again: it is dependent on the driver itself).
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the project is going on, at the moment the planned configuration is a 4way, as i can't find a reason for a 5 way. to play around with and the desired drivers are:
upper midrange W12CY001 2500 down to 500 (sealed), lower midrange W22EX001 500 down to 100 (at the moment im listen to it in a 3,5 way from 500 down to open end (sealed), Bass W22EX001 (reflex - not implemented, an other woofer is doing the bass atm).
due the lockdown im a bit short in wood to build boxes
now the question is which tweeter to use. i did a research and the general meaning between seas and scan speak driver is, that the scan speak drivers having a bit more resolution.one poster said that they are overdetailed
so:
the D3004/662000 seems to have a really flat response up to 30k, but its lacking the sd2 drive.
the D3004/660000 doesnt have that smooth response, but is used in some projects.
so my question is, does anyone having some experience with the D3004/662000 and D3004/660000 ? what are the benefits of the SB2 drive ? the tech notes are telling me about a reduction of the second harmonic, is there anything else ?
greetings from vienna
upper midrange W12CY001 2500 down to 500 (sealed), lower midrange W22EX001 500 down to 100 (at the moment im listen to it in a 3,5 way from 500 down to open end (sealed), Bass W22EX001 (reflex - not implemented, an other woofer is doing the bass atm).
due the lockdown im a bit short in wood to build boxes
now the question is which tweeter to use. i did a research and the general meaning between seas and scan speak driver is, that the scan speak drivers having a bit more resolution.one poster said that they are overdetailed
so:
the D3004/662000 seems to have a really flat response up to 30k, but its lacking the sd2 drive.
the D3004/660000 doesnt have that smooth response, but is used in some projects.
so my question is, does anyone having some experience with the D3004/662000 and D3004/660000 ? what are the benefits of the SB2 drive ? the tech notes are telling me about a reduction of the second harmonic, is there anything else ?
greetings from vienna
It seems you are wanting for a way to objectively point towards the ability of a driver to aid with the subjective....The impulse/step response...it seems the more I learn about it...the better it serves me for judging a driver... this
- Frontiers - might help you on your quest.
Resolution is the lack of distortion, distortion is anything that has been added to or taken away from, the original signal
- Frontiers - might help you on your quest.
Resolution is the lack of distortion, distortion is anything that has been added to or taken away from, the original signal
Eton 26HD3 tweeter
Eton 29HD2 Magnesium Ceramic Dome Tweeter
I am very tempted by these newer Tweeters from Eton. Not as expensive as Be for sure. I have never heard them but I imagine they are quite accurate and low distortion. Treated domes like these can bring you the best qualities of soft dome and hard dome both but without nasty breakups or harshness. Just another option; other tweeters with a similar design are getting good reviews.
Eton 29HD2 Magnesium Ceramic Dome Tweeter
I am very tempted by these newer Tweeters from Eton. Not as expensive as Be for sure. I have never heard them but I imagine they are quite accurate and low distortion. Treated domes like these can bring you the best qualities of soft dome and hard dome both but without nasty breakups or harshness. Just another option; other tweeters with a similar design are getting good reviews.
Yep, AKA PRaT [pace, rhythm & timing] is what the pioneers taught me and has served me well.
GM
I keep saying the same kind of things. A very quick and precise (ie accurate) transient response is just as important as frequency and phase response. If any of these is less than optimum; the speakers sound "fake" as compared to live music. To my way of thinking, the goal is to make the drivers disappear so we only hear the recording as if we were at the studio or venue; not in our homes!
another question:
do aperiodic enclosures have a better step response ? i think i found 10 years ago something about it (but not exactly sure if i remember wrong) and tried google again but all i found was about impedance and q factor. no information about step response.
anyone have some experience about it ?
do aperiodic enclosures have a better step response ? i think i found 10 years ago something about it (but not exactly sure if i remember wrong) and tried google again but all i found was about impedance and q factor. no information about step response.
anyone have some experience about it ?
This thread is way beyond my means but then I found these.
4" Treated Paper Cone Woofer 16 Ohm
MTM might be the way to go and not stress about the high cost of drivers.
Just a divergent way of thinking about the problem.
4" Treated Paper Cone Woofer 16 Ohm
MTM might be the way to go and not stress about the high cost of drivers.
Just a divergent way of thinking about the problem.
This is a good one. flatter response through the midband than the 8ohm version. Digikey is the only one who has it in stock at the moment. Also the efficiency is about 87.5db through the midband.
Peerless by Tymphany NE123W - 4" Woofer
And for half the price..
Peerless by Tymphany HDS-P830870 - 4" Woofer
Peerless by Tymphany NE123W - 4" Woofer
And for half the price..
Peerless by Tymphany HDS-P830870 - 4" Woofer
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I also noticed some minor but yet important differences between things in the Satori line. For example, if you compare 8 vs 4 Ohm gray cone; some wiggles in the response are not the same. Then; compare to the 4 Ohm vs 8 Ohm in the white cone; even more differences. So; 4 versions of the same model all have 4 slightly different measured plots and TSPs. Can we hear these differences? My guess is yes. I recently looked at some cone edge treatments that Troels did on I think the Satori MR16 mid...same heritage as the Vifa NE series. Small differences can sometimes make a huge difference in the perceived sound "quality"
I guess my latest version of 3 1/2 way...will now officially be a...wait for it...5-way with sub!
Long story for sure; I have the Satori MR16 as a low mid now and the MA Pluvia 7PHD as a high mid but NOW, on separate amps again instead of combined.
If you want great details, please PM me. My fondness for Satori and Mark Audio as the best drivers for accurate music in this price range is well known by now. Tired of defending my views though so if you are serious; just PM instead so we can avoid all the back and forth BS that could go on until the Sun consumes us as a Red Giant in 3 to 5 Billion years...ha ha ha...
Long story for sure; I have the Satori MR16 as a low mid now and the MA Pluvia 7PHD as a high mid but NOW, on separate amps again instead of combined.
If you want great details, please PM me. My fondness for Satori and Mark Audio as the best drivers for accurate music in this price range is well known by now. Tired of defending my views though so if you are serious; just PM instead so we can avoid all the back and forth BS that could go on until the Sun consumes us as a Red Giant in 3 to 5 Billion years...ha ha ha...
The question is, are these equalisable response variations or not equalisable? It's not that you can't hear differences, I'm sure you can, it's just what parts of it actually matter when selecting a driver, so we can make the right choice?
I recall a member who decided to go down this road. They didn't last long before going the way of an old star. Good science will stand up to scrutiny, despite drowning in a sea of opinions.