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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

synergy.....Take #7
synergy.....Take #7
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Old 26th March 2020, 06:14 AM   #11
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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synergy.....Take #7
Mark100, I didn't do as thorough testing as you did, but in what I did test I also never saw much benefit from putting the taps in the corners -- the closer I got to the corners, the more issues I seemed to have. And getting the tap in the center of the midrange/midwoofer driver does wonders for the high end of the midrange driver if you can get it there. Skootching the upper corner of the midrange was always the battle in the syns I did. Getting that tweeter crossover point down lower is probably the best (though expensive) way to go. I'll be interested to see what people can do with that new Eminence compression driver.
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Old 26th March 2020, 06:18 AM   #12
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjasniew View Post
Why not 3D print the throat part, and mount it as a component to the wood part? That would make the critical small dimensions consistent and easier to realize.
Click the image to open in full size.
http://libinst.com/SynergyDIY/StubV6...me%20plugs.stl
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Old 26th March 2020, 02:53 PM   #13
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Originally Posted by fluid View Post
Hiding the ports in the corners and making them smaller had effects on the tweeters output, in that that when the ports are closer for midrange drivers the effects are greater. When you move them out further they have less effect. Pushing the tweeter lower like with your DCX makes a lot of the other compromises less important.

The depth, frustrumming and needing to use a cone plug comes down to trying to push the midrange low pass frequency higher. Horn resp sims shows the interaction of the volume of air in the throat chamber, port length and size. When you move the target down to 500Hz that is easier too. The 10FE200 also has a pretty shallow cone and not that much trapped air, a deeper cone might well present differently.

Centering the port over the driver will minimize path length differences and seems like a no brainer but it is not always possible when trying to juggle the physical size of midranges close enough to the throat.
Yep, what you and Patrick are saying about closer to throat having more potential negative impact, has been my understanding too.
If I were using a smaller 4-5" mid to bridge higher, I'd be very curious to try their ports out of the corners too....just to know...

The 10FE200 has been pleasant surprise, in how well it fit the design goal of low weight, and then how well the port size /location kinda fell into place.
I might end up reducing volume under the cone to try to raise response above 500Hz a bit more. But maybe not, it's sounding awfully good as is


Below is the mid raw response.
syn7 mid raw avg.JPG

Oh, one test I just ran indoors, was a 1m sensitivity test on the processed mids, as the 10FE200's are clearly what will run out of steam first. (xovers at 100 and 500Hz)
The two 4 ohm drivers in series, give 102.5dB at 2.83V.
That calculates to about 127dB at AES wattage rating.
Not bad for a 45 lb box
Mark be happy camper !
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Old 26th March 2020, 03:03 PM   #14
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Mark100, I didn't do as thorough testing as you did, but in what I did test I also never saw much benefit from putting the taps in the corners -- the closer I got to the corners, the more issues I seemed to have. And getting the tap in the center of the midrange/midwoofer driver does wonders for the high end of the midrange driver if you can get it there. Skootching the upper corner of the midrange was always the battle in the syns I did. Getting that tweeter crossover point down lower is probably the best (though expensive) way to go. I'll be interested to see what people can do with that new Eminence compression driver.
I thought I had remembered you saying ports out of the corners had worked for you. Thanks for replying with your experiences.

And yep, getting the port under the center on the cone, moved freq response up enough I haven't felt the need to reduce volume under the cone.

I'm very interested to see how the new Eminence works, too.
If CDs become better priced and can reach down into the dcx and bms low corner freq range, it seems like we will see a lot more builds skipping the smaller bridging mids.
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:00 PM   #15
jjasniew is offline jjasniew  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
your pix
Well, that's exactly what I had imagined!
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:59 PM   #16
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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synergy.....Take #7
Nice work Mark100! I also had a similar experience with making the crossover at 600Hz. I used a Heil AMT which let me go low. The mid range was easy to mount on the top panel. I used two hot dog shaped slots but probably a round would have worked too. The low XO is key to a an easy to make and simple Synergy. Basically following the FAST recipe for a low frequency crossover 2-way.
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Old 26th March 2020, 09:18 PM   #17
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Is that the reflection (from the throat/CD) null at around 630 Hz? Maybe you could kill it with mid impulse response inversion. It would be an interesting experiment...
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Old 26th March 2020, 10:50 PM   #18
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Seems low for the tweeter throat but it does look a reflection null of some kind.
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Old 26th March 2020, 10:55 PM   #19
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
Nice work Mark100! I also had a similar experience with making the crossover at 600Hz. I used a Heil AMT which let me go low. The mid range was easy to mount on the top panel. I used two hot dog shaped slots but probably a round would have worked too. The low XO is key to a an easy to make and simple Synergy. Basically following the FAST recipe for a low frequency crossover 2-way.
Thx xrk971 !

Interesting you played with hotdog shapes too ... i wanted to try such, but ran out of experimenting willpower/patience lol..

So the Heil is good to 600Hz? That's really cool and very enticing...
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Old 26th March 2020, 11:00 PM   #20
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Originally Posted by nc535 View Post
Is that the reflection (from the throat/CD) null at around 630 Hz? Maybe you could kill it with mid impulse response inversion. It would be an interesting experiment...

I think probably so.

Mid inverse would be very interesting.
If i decide i need to push mid-to-high xover freq above 500Hz, I'll give this a try.
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