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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 18th December 2019, 08:38 AM   #11
Geertidow is offline Geertidow
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Dear Allen,

Thanks for your help.
I did take all the steps posted so far. Unfortunately, I was dumb enough to accidentally delete my REW measurements. I'd happily make them again when I'm back home (abroad for a week). I've tested all drivers separately with a sweep measurement in REW. The bass driver performed well up to 2 Khz, the mis from 100 (I think) up to 8000 Hz or so.

The frequency response for the tweeter was flat up to about 1 Khz and then started to decrease in a lineae fashion with lower frequencies stopping at 500 Hz. This led to my assumption that a crossover at 2000 Hz with 12 db per octave was not a big problem but I lack sufficient knowledge to make a proper conclusion.

I have tested 2nd and 4th order LR filters at 2000, 3000 and 4000 Hz with different bass/mid crossovers and in terms of frequency response measurements and subjective listening the 2nd order filters gave more satisfactory results. I did not take phase and timing in consideration yet since I lack understanding of the first and wait until the crossovers are done for the second).

In terms of measurement I think there was no clear winner in terms of frequency response at 2000, 3000 and 4000 Hz for the mid/tweeter crossover (with a 2nd order LR). However, the 2000 Hz crossover just sounded the best. Even when rising the crossover to 2400 Hz for tweeter safety I felt a small decrease in 'coherence'. However, I do not want to ruin my tweeters.

I do not mind remeasuring my unsaved measurements or doing the work. But I do have to wait until Christmas before I can measure again.
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Old 18th December 2019, 08:45 AM   #12
Geertidow is offline Geertidow
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I did find a photo of the tweeter response! Screenshot_20191218-094428.jpg
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Old 18th December 2019, 09:14 AM   #13
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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The CM8 (maybe not the 2) have a very simple filter on the tweeter. Please check the crossover board and confirm what components are working with the tweeter.

If this is true, you have much freedom of choice in this matter, as long as you use a higher order filter going low.

I suspect the mid is the reason that crossing at 2 is better. Not because it is a bad mid, simply because of its size.
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Old 18th December 2019, 09:20 AM   #14
Geertidow is offline Geertidow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
The CM8 (maybe not the 2) have a very simple filter on the tweeter. Please check the crossover board and confirm what components are working with the tweeter.

If this is true, you have much freedom of choice in this matter, as long as you use a higher order filter going low.

I suspect the mid is the reason that crossing at 2 is better. Not because it is a bad mid, simply because of its size.
Dear Allen,

All tweeter filters from the B&W's have been removed, so there is no analogue filtering anymore.

The attached photo was the hf filter (tweeter and mid). Based on the frequency response of the tweeter, would LR2 on 2000 Hz be to extreme?

IMG-20191209-WA0026.jpg
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Old 18th December 2019, 09:37 AM   #15
YSDR is online now YSDR  Hungary
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LR2 at 2kHz is not extreme for a good 1" dome tweeter nowadays. This B&W tweeter seems a good one.

I think Allen said that check the original passive crossover schematic, especially the tweeter filter network.
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Old 18th December 2019, 09:53 AM   #16
Geertidow is offline Geertidow
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The schematics are not published I think.
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Old 18th December 2019, 09:58 AM   #17
YSDR is online now YSDR  Hungary
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But you have the assembled crossovers out of the loudspeakers. Or not?
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Old 18th December 2019, 10:03 AM   #18
Geertidow is offline Geertidow
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The foto above shows the mf/hf filter.
I'm too dumb to distille the schematic from it.
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Old 18th December 2019, 10:20 AM   #19
YSDR is online now YSDR  Hungary
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Can you make a photo of the front and back of mid/hi board?

I say carefully that, a LR2 at 2kHz is fine if you don't play excessively loud. But this speakers is not meant to play too loud anyway.

Btw, I think a properly designed LR4 filter at 2kHz is not worse to the ears than an LR2. IMO. So I would not remove that from the options.
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Old 18th December 2019, 10:35 AM   #20
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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YSDR I agree completely! A well implemented LR4 will sound much better than a poorly implemented LR2 and vice versa If there are issues with breakup on the mids, or distortion on the tweeter, then a well implemented LR4 may actually sound better than a well implemented LR2 as well.

I think I need to post some sims for Geertidow to properly understand what I asked before. I'll see what I can come up with.

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