Yes, they certainly do
Especially if you feed them some high quality SACD recordings, then they're really addictive,
you start listen to a song then another one and another one... hours fly by foot-tapping and totally emerged in the recording.
Everybody who heard them wants a pair
Here's the last version of the filter.
I've been playing with the value of the resistor R1 that is located before the mid/high.
It is really a balancing act: some recordings have more than enough bass, some not,
but I like a little too much bass than not enough, so 1.5 is a nice compromise
R1 must be a single resistor for the mids/highs, you can't use a separate resistor for the mids and another for the highs, otherwise the phase at the crossover point is changed.
So now I have a filter that's easily adapted to the room or personal preferences:
change R1 for more or less bass or change R2 for more or less highs, perfect !
I've been playing with the value of the resistor R1 that is located before the mid/high.
It is really a balancing act: some recordings have more than enough bass, some not,
but I like a little too much bass than not enough, so 1.5 is a nice compromise
R1 must be a single resistor for the mids/highs, you can't use a separate resistor for the mids and another for the highs, otherwise the phase at the crossover point is changed.
So now I have a filter that's easily adapted to the room or personal preferences:
change R1 for more or less bass or change R2 for more or less highs, perfect !
Attachments
I haven't done any distortion measurements, is there a way to make reliable distortion measurements of a speaker in a room ?
But I suppose they have very low distortion,
when I turn up the volume (loud) they still sound very smooth, no audible distortion.
Reasons:
- The drivers that I used have a low distortion even at high levels:
Raal 140-15D
Accuton C173-6-090
Alcone AC10HE
- I chose the crossover points so that each driver is used in the frequency range that has the least distortion for that driver.
- woofer and mid/high cabinets are acoustically decoupled
But I suppose they have very low distortion,
when I turn up the volume (loud) they still sound very smooth, no audible distortion.
Reasons:
- The drivers that I used have a low distortion even at high levels:
Raal 140-15D
Accuton C173-6-090
Alcone AC10HE
- I chose the crossover points so that each driver is used in the frequency range that has the least distortion for that driver.
- woofer and mid/high cabinets are acoustically decoupled
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Hi,
I just came back from a skiing holiday
So it was about 10 days since I heard my speakers.
Now that I heard them again, I can only confirm that they sound sublime
Sometimes it is good to take some distance (time) from a project and listen later again with a fresh set of ears or an erased "audio memory".
But now hearing them, I can only say:
My quest for the ultimate speaker has definitely ended,
at least for a few years
Here's the final crossover, I just changed the resistor values for the Raal ribbon, I like it better with 5.6 ohm, with R5 and R6 I can still augment the ribbon output in steps of 0.5db
Regards,
Danny
I just came back from a skiing holiday
So it was about 10 days since I heard my speakers.
Now that I heard them again, I can only confirm that they sound sublime
Sometimes it is good to take some distance (time) from a project and listen later again with a fresh set of ears or an erased "audio memory".
But now hearing them, I can only say:
My quest for the ultimate speaker has definitely ended
,at least for a few years
Here's the final crossover, I just changed the resistor values for the Raal ribbon, I like it better with 5.6 ohm, with R5 and R6 I can still augment the ribbon output in steps of 0.5db
Regards,
Danny
Attachments
Hello. I really like this project, I bet they sound great.
Did you ever try with just a single 10" woofer? Im in the market for some, ideally 2x10" or 1x12" per side.
How come you decided on this one? I will be matching mine with metal coned Alpair 7.3's and like the high SPL too.
Have you toted up the total price, shame those Accuton have shot up so much!
Did you ever try with just a single 10" woofer? Im in the market for some, ideally 2x10" or 1x12" per side.
How come you decided on this one? I will be matching mine with metal coned Alpair 7.3's and like the high SPL too.
Have you toted up the total price, shame those Accuton have shot up so much!
Yes, they still do. Since they are finished I can't stop listening to them
I decided on two woofers because I wanted a high sensitive system and the woofers needed to match the sensitivity of the accuton mid.
There's no substitute for sd (cone area)
If I had used only one woofer I would have used another accuton driver with lower sensitivity like the C173-6-191E, the C158-8-085 or the C158-6-851.
Here's the final filter, I just did some very minor adjustments.
The Raal ribbon has now 5.6ohm in series and is playing 0.5db less loud, sounds more balanced, natural.
The Accuton mid has about for 94uf instead of 104uf caps in series, sometimes the voices were a little to dark, not anymore now
There's no need for the R1 resistor in front of the mid/highs, it's bypassed, I can play the Accuton without the need to pad it down with a resistor, very nice
They still sound very good after listening the last few months and I still listen a lot to them, that's a good sign
The Raal ribbon has now 5.6ohm in series and is playing 0.5db less loud, sounds more balanced, natural.
The Accuton mid has about for 94uf instead of 104uf caps in series, sometimes the voices were a little to dark, not anymore now
There's no need for the R1 resistor in front of the mid/highs, it's bypassed, I can play the Accuton without the need to pad it down with a resistor, very nice
They still sound very good after listening the last few months and I still listen a lot to them, that's a good sign
Attachments
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Here's the real final filter
Almost completely the same as the previous version, just a little less attenuation for the Raal ribbon.
I now have 4.7 and 27 ohm parallel (=4ohm) that gives 0.5dB more highs compared to 4.7 ohm
Last week I had a DIY audio listening session with some friends, we listened to some new speakers and DACs.
They found that my speakers sounded phenomenal, I can't disagree with that
Almost completely the same as the previous version, just a little less attenuation for the Raal ribbon.
I now have 4.7 and 27 ohm parallel (=4ohm) that gives 0.5dB more highs compared to 4.7 ohm
Last week I had a DIY audio listening session with some friends, we listened to some new speakers and DACs.
They found that my speakers sounded phenomenal, I can't disagree with that
Attachments
How are the Alcone woofers compared to those from SEAS (like the L26ROY or W26FX)?
I believe the Accuton has been replaced by the 173-06-96 now though Madisound is still selling the -90.
True, but totally worth it and I would definitely buy them again now that I know the outcome of this speaker project
Still "quite cheap"
if you compare them with commercial designs with Raal and Accuton drivers.I haven't compared them by listening only by reading the specs, both have too low sensitivity to match the Accuton mid.
The Seas L26ROY is more a subwoofer (mms=107g), it has lower sensitivity and is 4ohm (impossible to put 2 in parallel).
The W26FX001 has way too low sensitivity and huge cone breakup at 4k.
The Alcones have good sensitivity for a 10" alu driver, 2 of them match the Accuton mid perfectly, breakup is only at 8-10k.
Not correct, the C173-6-090 and the C173-6-096 are 2 different drivers, 090 a pure mid, 096 a bass-mid.
As mid the 090 is much easier to work with due to the nicely behaved breakup.
With the Alcone woofers I've been able to make a speaker of 93-94db sensitvity without the need to attenuate the Accuton mid with a resistor.
Here comes version 1.1
I'm planning to make a new version of the bass cabinet:
Same woofer drivers but just a little bigger: 10 cm higher and more internal volume.
My current bass cabinets are 76 liter, the new ones will be 110 liter, simulated in winisd (yellow) that gives me at 50hz +1db, 40hz +2db and 30hz +3db.
But the main reason for the new cabinets is that I prefer the sound (better soundstage) when I sit 10cm lower,
so I had the choice: buy a lower seat or make larger cabinets.
Larger cabinets give me also more lower bass, a lower chair not
My current speakers are 120cm (woofers cab 72cm) high and my ears are at 120 high.
The new ones will be 130cm (woofers cab 82cm) high. Ears still at 120cm
The mid/high cabinet and filter remains unchanged.
The filter for the woofers will probably change from 3rd order 2.8mh-100uf-1.1mh to 2nd order 3.1mh-100uf, but I need to test that and take some measurements.
I'm planning to make a new version of the bass cabinet:
Same woofer drivers but just a little bigger: 10 cm higher and more internal volume.
My current bass cabinets are 76 liter, the new ones will be 110 liter, simulated in winisd (yellow) that gives me at 50hz +1db, 40hz +2db and 30hz +3db.
But the main reason for the new cabinets is that I prefer the sound (better soundstage) when I sit 10cm lower,
so I had the choice: buy a lower seat or make larger cabinets.
Larger cabinets give me also more lower bass, a lower chair not
My current speakers are 120cm (woofers cab 72cm) high and my ears are at 120 high.
The new ones will be 130cm (woofers cab 82cm) high. Ears still at 120cm
The mid/high cabinet and filter remains unchanged.
The filter for the woofers will probably change from 3rd order 2.8mh-100uf-1.1mh to 2nd order 3.1mh-100uf, but I need to test that and take some measurements.
Attachments
I did a quick measurement in that small room (4mx4m)
The microphone is at 1m distance and 1m height (between mid and ribbon), 1/6th octave smoothing.
Don't pay attention to the dips below 200Hz, if I move the mic a little I get a different looking measurement.
Next week when the speakers are in the larger room I'll do some more measurements.
This speaker is voiced like my Focal 1027s and also like Troels does, you don't want the frequency response to be completely flat: it will give you a headache and run out of the room, especially with the Raal ribbon, it has a very wide dispersion.
During development of the crossover I also measured the Focal 1027s to compare.
I am quite satisfied with the result
There is no way that graph is accurate in such a small room , you must have killed it with smoothing ....
The smoothing is only 1/6th octave.
I've made plenty of other measurements in other rooms, distances, angles, ... and above 300Hz it averages very good with this measurement.
Also the room measures rather good because:
- very thick carpet
- thick curtains
- acoustic foam on the side walls
- irregular ceiling with wooden rafters
- the backside of the speaker was close to an open door, so it had a 2nd room to breath.
Now that the crossover for the mid/tweeter is finalized, I have rearranged the cabling and the crossover components in the mid/ribbon cabinet.
Here's some pics, in the first you see the interior of the 3.5 liter mid cabinet filled with about 15 grams of Twaron angel hair.
The backside of the mid cabinet is irregular shaped.
In the second picture you see the back of the mid cabinet with the aperiodic vent sticking out and 9x10uf of Siemens MKV caps.
The aperiodic vent is a PVC tube of 4x10cm filled with less than 1 gram of Twaron angel hair.
In measurements the aperiodic vented mid cabinet doesn't react like a bass reflex but more like a closed box.
At first I tried a closed mid cabinet but the aperiodic sounds better to me,
I completely agree with Troels: "I don't dig closed boxes for larger midrange drivers! It kills the midrange."
In the last picture you see all components in place, the siemens MKV caps at the bottom (hidden), above that the components for the Accuton mid and on the third level the components for the Raal ribbon.
All playing very nicely together
Here's some pics, in the first you see the interior of the 3.5 liter mid cabinet filled with about 15 grams of Twaron angel hair.
The backside of the mid cabinet is irregular shaped.
In the second picture you see the back of the mid cabinet with the aperiodic vent sticking out and 9x10uf of Siemens MKV caps.
The aperiodic vent is a PVC tube of 4x10cm filled with less than 1 gram of Twaron angel hair.
In measurements the aperiodic vented mid cabinet doesn't react like a bass reflex but more like a closed box.
At first I tried a closed mid cabinet but the aperiodic sounds better to me,
I completely agree with Troels: "I don't dig closed boxes for larger midrange drivers! It kills the midrange."
In the last picture you see all components in place, the siemens MKV caps at the bottom (hidden), above that the components for the Accuton mid and on the third level the components for the Raal ribbon.
All playing very nicely together
Attachments
$11 ref speaker?
Danny,
Awesome speaker - fantastic job you did here! Thanks for laying out all the steps.
Btw, I am also working on a much smaller and cheaper reference speaker - just from 100 Hz to 18 kHz and low SPL for monitoring in near field. It costs $11 to make and measures well. Just needs a sub to integrate. If anyone is interested it is in the fullrange forum.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/247598-nautaloss-ref-monitor.html
Here is the response measured at 12 in away.
Danny,
Awesome speaker - fantastic job you did here! Thanks for laying out all the steps.
Btw, I am also working on a much smaller and cheaper reference speaker - just from 100 Hz to 18 kHz and low SPL for monitoring in near field. It costs $11 to make and measures well. Just needs a sub to integrate. If anyone is interested it is in the fullrange forum.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/247598-nautaloss-ref-monitor.html
Here is the response measured at 12 in away.
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