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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
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Old 29th April 2020, 01:14 AM   #3011
emailtim is offline emailtim  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid View Post
No problem seems I misunderstood your intention. I did wonder which tape measure you had to mark out 11.8 inches

Troels graveson has a good document showing mic ripple putting a tube over the back can make quite a difference.
The 11.8 inches came from dividing 30cm by 2.54. I wanted to see how far off my 1 foot rule of thumb was to your 30cm.

2.54 and 25.4 are my metric conversion aces in the hole.
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Old 29th April 2020, 01:58 AM   #3012
emailtim is offline emailtim  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid View Post
...

Troels graveson has a good document showing mic ripple putting a tube over the back can make quite a difference.
Found it. Makes sense. My stand is like this.

Click the image to open in full size.

Bit I can see how his extension would be better. I will check it out to see if it impacts the 1st ms.

Loudspeaker Measurements
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Old 4th May 2020, 03:30 PM   #3013
fewa is offline fewa
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rePhase not open source?
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Old 5th May 2020, 10:50 PM   #3014
dantwomey is offline dantwomey  Canada
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by lykkedk View Post
Hi, i tried 100x more and trying to understand things.
- Still this howto : Dropbox - REW_rePhase_tuto.pdf - Simplify your life

I will try to explain step by step how i followed the howto, hoping someone can take a look at it ? :

REW :
1. Take vector average of both L & R channel.
2. 1/6 octave & IR window smooth them and then make rePhase target EQ file.xml
3. Disable IR window(FDW) and export L & R vector averaged measurement as .txt
--- From now only explain 1 channel (L)
4. Import L vector average to rePhase
5. Apply EQ filter (.xml)
6. Generate Left 48Khz 32 LPCM mono impulse
7. Import Left 48Khz 32 LPCM mono impulse into REW
8. Disable all IR windows to be sure and do Left vector average * Left 48Khz impulse
9. Add -offset (I did -105dB) to make this around 72dB
10. Create excess phase (again be sure all IR windows are disabled)
11. Save Excess phase as .txt
12. Reset settings in rePhase (or restart it) and load measurement Excess phase Left
13. Load target EQ from REW.
14. Create filter for 44100, 88200, 96000, 172400, 192000 etc... all .bin or whatever to be used.

I read many different explanations of this, but a lot is still unclear to me.
I'am very much in doubt of if i do it right in rePhase, as i only load the Excess phase of channel LEFT and apply my target EQ to this, and then generate the filter.

Thanks in advance dsp folk's

Jesper.
Following in Jesper's footsteps!

1).
Here's my 18 measurements. Nine for each channel as outlined in SwissBear's tutorial.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic1-jpg

2.) I manually aligned the impulses of all the individual measurement using the
'Set T=0 at cursor' feature with the cursor at the center of the highest peak on each impulse.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic2-jpg

3.) I then vector aligned the nine measurements for each channel and applied 1/6 smoothing and FDW of 15 cycles. Left Vector average shown.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic3-jpg

4.) Just for information I've included here the impulse of the Left Vector Average.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic4-jpg

5.)A screen capture of the Auto EQ of my Left Vector average.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic5-jpg

6.) A screen capture of the filters generated by the Auto EQ.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic6-jpg

7.) The filters are saved for each channel in .xml format for use in Rephase.

8.) Windowing (FDW) is removed from each vector average but the 1/6 smoothing is left intact before exporting each as text for use in Rephase.

Part II soon!

Regards,
Dan
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pic1.jpg (96.1 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg Pic2.jpg (90.8 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg Pic3.jpg (124.4 KB, 263 views)
File Type: jpg Pic4.jpg (84.1 KB, 259 views)
File Type: jpg Pic5.jpg (183.0 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg Pic6.jpg (169.2 KB, 264 views)
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Old 6th May 2020, 03:13 AM   #3015
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantwomey View Post

8.) Windowing (FDW) is removed from each vector average but the 1/6 smoothing is left intact before exporting each as text for use in Rephase.
No 8 doesn't make much sense.

Also a flat in room response is unlikely to be the best final target. A speaker with flat anechoic on axis response has a downtilted response when measured in a room.

I realise that you have been following the tutorial quite closely and their graphs show a flat response but that is something that is probably better to deviate from.

Add a tilt in the REW EQ section target response. The LF and HF sections switch at 200Hz so you can create a linear tilt from any frequency or have it hinge a little at 200Hz.

Anywhere from 6 to 9dB slope from 100Hz to 20K is a reasonable ball park figure, which comes down to personal preference.
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Old 6th May 2020, 06:36 AM   #3016
lykkedk is offline lykkedk  Denmark
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dantwomey

The "guide" i wrote as you refer to, was not ment as i guide, just a how i do it, and what do i do wrong for someone to help me correct it. Belive me im a totally newbie going at the steep step's right now at the learning curve

fluid corrects my no. 10 btw...

Quote:
Originally by fluid ::
At point 10 when exporting the excess phase it should be Frequency Dependant Windowed otherwise you will get a significant amount of room response in the phase trace and will be trying to micro manage it with rephase.
Quote:
1. Take vector average of both L & R channel.
2. 1/6 octave & IR window smooth them and then make rePhase target EQ file.xml
3. Disable IR window(FDW) and export L & R vector averaged measurement as .txt
--- From now only explain 1 channel (L)
4. Import L vector average to rePhase
5. Apply EQ filter (.xml)
6. Generate Left 48Khz 32 LPCM mono impulse
7. Import Left 48Khz 32 LPCM mono impulse into REW
8. Disable all IR windows to be sure and do Left vector average * Left 48Khz impulse
9. Add -offset (I did -105dB) to make this around 72dB
10. Create excess phase (Corrected to with FDW window)
11. Save Excess phase as .txt
12. Reset settings in rePhase (or restart it) and load measurement Excess phase Left
13. Load target EQ from REW.
14. Create filter for 44100, 88200, 96000, 172400, 192000 etc... all .bin or whatever to be used.
Also i have learned later that i measure with an umik usb 48khz mic. so i am not at all sure that filters could be created in rePhase other than 48khz.
I am quite sure i have to resample my 48khz'a measurements into say 44100, 88200 & 96000 before making filters in rePhase. And this i also have my doubts about. I think it could be better to resample all measurements and then load them into REW and make time allign, average etc..

I was recommended to use Audacity for resampling.

Hope i do not make to much confussion for you ... sry if i do!
Jesper.
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Old 6th May 2020, 08:16 AM   #3017
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lykkedk View Post

Also i have learned later that i measure with an umik usb 48khz mic. so i am not at all sure that filters could be created in rePhase other than 48khz.
I am quite sure i have to resample my 48khz'a measurements into say 44100, 88200 & 96000 before making filters in rePhase. And this i also have my doubts about. I think it could be better to resample all measurements and then load them into REW and make time allign, average etc...
The filters can be created in rephase at any sample rate you like, the REW generated xml files don't rely on the sample rate and the text measurements imported into rephase don't rely on the sample rate either. The only time it might present a problem is if you were trying to use a filter that was higher than the half sampling frequency of the lowest rate you will use.

It is DRC that needs the sample rate to be correct as it works directly on the impulse. Easy to get confused
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Old 6th May 2020, 08:37 PM   #3018
dantwomey is offline dantwomey  Canada
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rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid View Post
No 8 doesn't make much sense.

Also a flat in room response is unlikely to be the best final target. A speaker with flat anechoic on axis response has a downtilted response when measured in a room.

I realise that you have been following the tutorial quite closely and their graphs show a flat response but that is something that is probably better to deviate from.

Add a tilt in the REW EQ section target response. The LF and HF sections switch at 200Hz so you can create a linear tilt from any frequency or have it hinge a little at 200Hz.

Anywhere from 6 to 9dB slope from 100Hz to 20K is a reasonable ball park figure, which comes down to personal preference.
Better?
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic7-jpg
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic8-jpg

Regards,
Dan
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File Type: jpg Pic8.jpg (450.0 KB, 206 views)
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:29 AM   #3019
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantwomey View Post
Better?
Most likely but only you can decide what your preference will be

That sort of target that resembles a BK curve with a slight bass boost will probably be preferred if listening loud. When I try it I like it more the louder I listen.

I don't really like to listen that loud most of the time so I tend towards something that is a more linear slope.

To get that change the HF Fall start to 200Hz. I also like a little bit steeper slope between 100 and 300 that can change things quite a lot with only 0.5dB difference. I also see this same trend in a lot of spinorama measurement of good loudspeakers.

It's only a few clicks to generate the different filters and hear for yourself.
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Old 7th May 2020, 07:47 PM   #3020
dantwomey is offline dantwomey  Canada
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
Part II
Left Channel only

Left Vector Average imported into Rephase with 1/6 smoothing but no FDW.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic9-jpg

Left Vector Average with REW filters applied and generating Impulse.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic10-jpg

View of the Impulse generated by Rephase.
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool-pic11-jpg

Regards,
Dan
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File Type: jpg Pic10.jpg (492.0 KB, 174 views)
File Type: jpg Pic11.jpg (437.0 KB, 172 views)
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