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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
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Old 2nd December 2019, 11:37 PM   #741
Denri is offline Denri  Russian Federation
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AllenB

I really like this topic and curious about one question.

First pages are covered first order filters and partly touches the second order filters for woofers at least.

But nothing said about mixing of different order crossovers.

I read some articles for car audio systems where used second order filter for woofer\low pass part of crossover while first order for tweeters. ( or vise versa for woofer tweeter )

What are drawbacks here in such designs?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 11:58 PM   #742
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
An important reason why first order for woofer and second order for tweeter is a good combination, is because when you plot acoustic phase vs frequency, the plot winds faster for a higher order rolloff.

Now, the sound from the woofer usually arrives later than the tweeter. Maybe an easy way to explain this is that the woofer voice coil is usually set back a couple or a few cm from the tweeter because the woofer is larger and goes further back into the cabinet. This has the effect of winding the phase faster vs frequency.

So, it's about making them meet up better in the end.
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Old 29th January 2020, 10:45 PM   #743
A4eaudio is offline A4eaudio  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Have you been able to measure this?
Isn't this the "Designing Crossovers WITHOUT MEASUREMENTS" thread?
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Old 29th January 2020, 11:19 PM   #744
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
Some discussion split to this thread. Link.
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Old 11th February 2020, 11:24 PM   #745
ALPUY is offline ALPUY  Uruguay
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Mr. AllenB. I have entered this thread looking for information on crossover networks.
My interest arose after I met Paul Carmody's projects, the Overnight Sensations.
From there I read about building speakers and their crossover networks.
I have learned things that I have never imagined, such as the influence of the size of the deflector and the position of the driver on the sound; the rupture of the cone; baffle pass, etc., etc.
I am about to build the Overnight Sensation TMM tower since I have heard good reviews for its price.
Now comes the question: I have an audio system composed among other components an ampli Marantz PM6006 and speakers B&W DM602.
I found the diagram of your crossover network and I see that it is very simple.
First order for woofer and third order for tweeter.
It has no Zobel network to tame the woofer's impedance; The tweeter also does not improve its impedance and is connected positive in the positive.
The question is whether the drivers are so good that they do not need those elements or simply ignored them for savings.
Would it be good to add them or would it be harmful?
Greetings Jose from Montevideo, Uruguay
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:07 AM   #746
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
If you are going to build the overnight sensations, I would recommend you go with Paul's crossover.
Quote:
Would it be good to add them or would it be harmful?
The crossover here does already improve impedance for both drivers. However, there are different ways that the impedance can be improved so maybe you can show what way you mean..
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Old 12th February 2020, 01:08 AM   #747
ALPUY is offline ALPUY  Uruguay
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AllenB I was referring to the B&W DM602 crossover.Looking at Paul's crossover, and comparing it with that of the Bowers and Wilkins DM 602 (it cost me $ 700 in 1997), I see. that Paul's design is superior.
My question is whether to add the Zobel network to the B&W DM602 crossover and also reverse the polarity of the tweeter
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DM602-TM.pdf (345.0 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by ALPUY; 12th February 2020 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:47 AM   #748
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
If you flip the polarity of the tweeter now, you will probably cause a problem. However if you make a larger change, you might then need to flip the polarity to fix it.

Can you make an improvement? Maybe. I know that B&W sometimes likes to make speakers for people that like a simple crossover. This might mean they used drivers with predictable output. I don't know if this speaker is like that.

If you want to experiment, one way is to listen to the woofer on its own, does it sound smooth at the higher frequencies. You could add to the woofer crossover, slowly. Then aim to fill the midrange hole you are creating either by extending the tweeter response, or by adjusting its level.
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Old 5th May 2020, 09:10 PM   #749
dlavallee is offline dlavallee  United States
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This is an excellent source of information, especially for a beginner like myself! Thank you AllenB and all of you who contributed to this!
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Old Yesterday, 05:36 PM   #750
molnyi is offline molnyi
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Hy AllenB,
Thank you for all of your help and effort that you put into this topic...
Can you help me a bit, im newbie and confused with something... If i pick up a coaxial ie. Seas H1602-04/06 L12RE/XFC or something similar like KEF speakers, how would you set up a crossover? I mean, it's one driver for whole speaker, so how would you shape the crossover?

thanks !
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